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Brian Kruger
This is Brian Kruger, the producer of The Common Bridge. Today’s episode covers a sensitive and distressing topic. We believe it’s an important discussion, but please listen with care. On July 26, 2025 chaos erupted at a Walmart in Traverse City, Michigan. Armed with a folding knife, 42 year old Bradford James Gille attacked 11 people, randomly stabbing men and women, some elderly, as shoppers scrambled for safety. The rampage spanned from the checkout lines through the store and out into the parking lot, where quick thinking bystanders, including a Marine veteran, bravely confronted and subdued Gille until the police arrived. All victims survived, but the event traumatized the community and spotlighted the nation’s mental healthcare crisis. Gille, who has a long history of mental illness, was charged with terrorism and multiple accounts of attempted murder, but was later ruled incompetent to stand trial, underscoring a system overwhelmed and often unable to prevent tragedy. The following conversation is with Bradley’s mother, Beverly, and the chair of the governor’s Mental Health Diversion Council, Judge Milton L. Mack Jr. We join the conversation with Rich Helppie in progress.
Rich Helppie
Hello, welcome to The Common Bridge. I’m your host, Rich Helppie. On The Common Bridge we’ve covered the topic of mental health and the enormous need that we have in the country. We’ve had guests like Kevin Fisher on, Dr Hong on from the University of Michigan, and, of course, Judge Milton Mack, a returning guest who’s been heavily involved with changes that we can make to our mental healthcare system. Also joining us today is a mother, a concerned citizen, who’s been profoundly affected. We have Beverly Gille, who is joining us in studio today to talk about her personal experience with some of the mental health policies. Welcome, Judge Mack and welcome, Beverly to The Common Bridge. Judge Mack, our audience is familiar with you, but if you don’t mind just a little bit on your experience as a judge over the last many decades.
Judge Milton Mack
Well, I served as a Wayne County probate judge for 25 years. Then I became state credit administrator, and I’ve been serving as a retired judge since then, visiting in various courts across the state. I’ve been very active on the mental health side. I was on the Mental Health Commission in 2004. I was a state court administrator. I was a member of the Conference of State Court Administrators, and I wrote the policy paper that year on how to improve the mental health system. And that led to the creation of a national task force, which has led to the creation of recommendations for states across the country to improve the mental health system, and we’ve seen a number of those recommendations take place. The key thing is, we’re changing the system from an inpatient model to an outpatient model. We’re changing the system from something which is not family friendly to something that is family friendly, so people can get help early on in the course of the illness.
Rich Helppie
And not a moment too soon, I know that we’ll be talking today about some of the legislation that’s in process here in Michigan. Beverly, thank you so much for making the journey down from up north. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your family and your sons, and perhaps a little bit about what’s brought you here today.
Beverly Gille
Struggles. Struggles through the mental health issue in my family. Our family hasn’t had an easy route throughout this whole circus. Dealing with community mental health, and finding out for Brad, who could be his payee, and worrying about his future. Worrying about his future alone was very stressful on all of our family.
Rich Helppie
And how old is Brad?
Beverly Gille
He’s 42.
Rich Helppie
42. And I understand when he was a teenager an event occurred. What happened?
Beverly Gille
On my end of it, I was at the computer, and Brad came into the home, and he said, Mom, mom, somebody gave me bad pot. And he said, I’m freaking out. I stopped what I was doing, I was like, what are you doing at 14 smoking marijuana? And that was aside from the issue, now I’m dealing with something, he’s saying he’s got bad pot. So Dad and I sat there with him, and we said, Okay, we can’t really take him right now, we’ve got to see him come down from this. So we coddled him and we thought, well, we’ll just let him come down, then we’ll take him into the emergency room. But it got worse. He got m ore in the fetal position, and we waited, and my husband and I were taking shifts sleeping because[it went] into the wee hours of the morning. Then finally I woke my husband up. I said, I can’t do this anymore, just see him deteriorate so fast. We wrapped him up in the blanket, and we took him to the ER. Dr Lowe, he was my family doctor, and he came in and examined Brad, and he did the blood work, and it came back that there were no drugs in his system. The whole idea of smoking marijuana at the age of 14 is not good for the brain, number one. And what I learned was that age, it’s a crucial time for children, who will get paranoid schizophrenia.
Rich Helppie
This 28 year journey that you’ve been on since you had that event, culminating in a very tragic event up in Traverse City, Walmart, I can’t even imagine, as a parent, what you were experiencing; multiple people stabbed and your child was the perpetrator.
Beverly Gille
I don’t even think that I’ve digested that quite yet. I mean, I think that whole thing, that’s my son, and that’s somebody that I cherish and I love. To see him have to struggle his life with demons and these thoughts in his head; it’s pathetic to see him go through that.
Rich Helppie
So you and your husband, an intact, concerned family, a child with an issue, you began to seek help. What did you experience after this interaction with your primary care doctor?
Beverly Gille
Dr Lowe came back to me and said that Brad had clean blood in him, the results, there were no drugs. At that point that he was diagnosed as severe depression. We took him down to the Children’s Hospital in Grand Rapids, and that’s when it was determined that he was paranoid schizophrenic. It all happened so fast. They asked me, what was his childhood like? I don’t even believe Brad really had a childhood. At 14 there was no time to really tell, it was like everything before that was just gone. It was like now we’re dealing with such a traumatic illness. That was our life now.
Rich Helppie
We want to understand the course of treatment. Right around 1997, here you are introduced to the mental health system, mental health services, here in the state of Michigan. Judge Mack, I don’t know if you have a total recall about what the policies were like back in ‘97 and maybe what’s changed? What changed after that point? Were there significant events?
Judge Milton Mack
We’ve gotten some significant legislative changes since then. Previously, you had to be a danger to self or others in order to get involuntary treatment, and the only thing a court could order was hospitalization. This had all changed in 1963 with the Community Mental Health Act. The idea was it was going to reduce the number of hospital beds and treat people on an outpatient basis. Federal government agreed to pay for this. Unfortunately, the federal government succeeded in reducing the number of hospital beds, but didn’t put the outpatient system in place.
Rich Helppie
So we had a system where there would be inpatient facilities and then the Community Mental Health Act came in what year? (Judge Milton Mack: 1963.) ‘63, so it’s been around for a while, and yet the only thing a judge could order in a situation like Gille family experience was, well, we can put him in the hospital. That couldn’t have been a permanent solution.
Judge Milton Mack
No, it’s not, because we’ve cut the number of hospital beds in this country from 559,000 in 1960 to about 35,000 today.
Rich Helppie
And with the expansion in population.
Judge Milton Mack
Right, so the system had to be changed. To rely on a short term hospital stay to be effective was just ridiculous. I mean, you take a look at Wayne County, the CMH serves about 38,000 people, and over a five year period, we have 15,000 petitions for 9,000 people. 600 of those 9,000 people accounted for 36% of all petitions filed. (Rich Helppie: Oh, my.) They’re just cycling through the system over and over again. So we looked at the people who had at least ten petitions, and there were 79 of them. And in one fiscal year, we spent $3.3 million on hospitalization and $1.6 million on incarceration, nearly $5 million and for that and we got nothing.
Rich Helppie
I’m recalling an earlier time when you were on The Common Bridge, and you talked about the jail system and the bail system and said it’s about mental health. You even gave anecdotes about some people wanting to go back into jail because they could get their medication there. Bev, when Brad and was taken down to Grand Rapids, did they give him an admission and give him a hospital stay?
Beverly Gille
Oh yeah. My son and I, went down, we took Brad there and we dropped him off at the door and signed him in. My oldest son and I, we slept in the car that night and waited, and then they opened up the Ronald McDonald home for us. We were there for, I believe, a good week, got Brad more stable, and then we brought him home. Then he had his community mental health and his doctor there. And what was really great about that, he was under my husband’s care, he was still a minor so we would take him to his doctor. One thing that I learned is that it’s like treating sugar diabetes; Brad will always have to have his medication for the rest of his life.
Rich Helppie
When you brought him home, was he given medication or counseling or any other treatment?
Beverly Gille
Yes, and we made sure, as his parents, that we were taking him to his doctor’s appointments and all his counseling and everything that he needed.
Rich Helppie
And how did things go during that period when you got home?
Beverly Gille
We made sure he was getting his treatment, I was able to communicate with his doctor at the time so it was flowing, everything was flowing. We took care of him. Brad did quite well at that time, as long as he had his medication.
Rich Helppie
And was that medication covered by insurance or through a state program?
Beverly Gille
A state program covered him.
Rich Helppie
Judge Mack, when you think about that period, we’re looking at the late ‘90s into the 2000s, a young man has had a crisis, great family came in to support him, things are going better. When you think about that from a policy standpoint, what was going on at that point that that seemingly addressed what was going on with young Brad?
Judge Milton Mack
Well, the point is, it was young Brad. What happened when he became an adult? Were you able to communicate with him?
Beverly Gille
We got him a lawyer, and we wanted to be his guardian knowing that the future was not going to get any better for him, that he was going to need supervision - talking to his doctors, being able to have that open communication - and we just wanted to have some - not control of him - knowledge of him as he progresses as an adult. We were told, oh, do you want to take away his freedom?
Rich Helppie
Now, look, this is such an important story that we have broad acknowledgment and acceptance that mental health is an issue in the country. It not only affects those that have the diagnosis, it affects their loved ones, it affects their community, and their behavior can threaten other people. I think what I heard from Judge Mack early on, there had to be a finding in a court of a danger to yourself, danger to others, and the only tool in the tool kit was a hospital stay but it wouldn’t be permanent. And now here you are with a young adult becoming legal age.
Judge Milton Mack
By the time he became an adult, her ability to be informed about her son’s condition evaporated and her ability to take steps to make something happen was extraordinarily limited, like she couldn’t go to court and say, I want him hospitalized. She could get a pickup order from the court, and they could take him to the hospital, and you’ve got to have two doctors certify that the person requires hospitalization before the hearing would even happen. And then the hospital, frequently, we were seeing as many as 60% of the cases where the petition is actually filed, it doesn’t even get to the courthouse because of a variety of reasons. So the system was not designed to help families. It was not designed to give treatment to people who didn’t want it. It does a very good job at that. So the change we finally got in place in 2016 was we changed the standard. We’re not looking to see whether you had an immediate threat of harm to self or others. We’re looking at whether you have a lack of understanding of your illness which could lead to harm to you or others in the near future.
Rich Helppie
When you say, we changed the system, was this legislation policy? (Judge Milton Mack: Yes.) So 2016, now that’s a long time ago. Your son would have come of age around 2001, right? He would have been 18 right around 2001. Now you’ve got 15 years of loving your son, doing all the right things and not having any ability to affect that.
Judge Milton Mack
She still could not file a petition on her own, she can still could not make this [cross talk, inaudible].
Rich Helppie
What’s a definition of a petition for people that aren’t familiar with it?
Judge Milton Mack
A piece of paper that says my son is ill. It’s published by the state court administrative office, PCM 201, for the detail. It outlines what the claim is, and then that is brought to a court. It’s like a civil complaint, a similar thing, but the petition cannot be scheduled for hearing until you get these two doctors to do the certification. We had additional legislation in 2018 which really made the system start to work, and it is working. But in the course of doing that, we discovered other significant flaws in the system. One that may apply to her case is you can enter an order for treatment today, which would include hospitalization and outpatient treatment for up to 180 days, and then at the end of the 180 days you can file for a second order. But there’s a catch, and that’s the problem with the mental health code. The catch is this; the person’s in the community, you can file a petition to extend, but you can’t file it less than seven days before, or more than 14 days before expires. So you’ve got a window of seven days you can file this petition, number one. Number two, you have to have a certificate from a doctor in order to file the petition. What happens is, people who are on these long term orders, they know this, and they disappear for a couple of months. Now we can’t get the cert, so we can’t file the petition, so you have to start all over again from the beginning.
Rich Helppie
Here’s your family doing the right thing. Brad comes of age. What was your experience then? It had to be terrifying. I get this vision that he’s cast out into the wilderness, and he needs help, and you can’t legally do it for him. What happened with you and your husband?
Beverly Gille
We got him into section eight housing, I got him into an apartment which had the elderly as well as young ones. I got him this nice apartment. We go shopping for little pieces of furniture at second hand stores. Brad’s sociopath friends took advantage of him. I thought there was a good future for him, but these friends would come over and they would smoke pot in the house. Brad would be sound asleep, and I’d go see him and check on him, and he’d be sound asleep because of the medication, and they’d be in there eating all his food and tearing up the apartment and the neighbors would complain. Well, then he got on the ACT team, which is active treatment, and they really didn’t do their job.
Rich Helppie
What is the ACT team?
Judge Milton Mack
ACT is a form of intensive supervision for a person receiving psychiatric care, and it’s usually very effective. The key changes we’re going to see with new legislation, assuming it passes, is it will be much more family friendly.
Rich Helppie
I want to get to that legislation, because I think that’s an important policy response, and I want to make sure that we have for our listeners, our readers and our viewers and understanding of this very compelling case here. And maybe we want to rewind and say, alright, if this law was in place back in 1997... You’ve got his life being taken apart by his sociopath acquaintances; they’re not friends if they’re doing that. You don’t have any resources but he is taking his medication. Did he have interactions with law enforcement or any anti-social behavior that you were aware of?
Beverly Gille
Yeah, because of those friends that were intruding on him. And he wanted friends, he wanted what he thought were his friends. Living up in the Petoskey area, I had Judge May, he was just an amazing man to guide me through things. Like, he said, Bev, you can’t be his payee and be a mom too, because these friends will say, Brad, your mom just wants your money. She just wants to take your money, you go get your money, Brad. Well, then there would be a confrontation with me and Brad’s a big guy, he’s six foot. Ed Madsen was Judge May’s right hand man. I would tell him that community mental health seems like they shunned me. They don’t want to talk to me. They don’t want to give me information because Brad’s an adult now and they say we can’t talk to you. So Ed went and sat in on a few meetings with community mental health and me, and he walked out saying, man, Bev, they treated you very rudely in there. They didn’t want me to be a part of my own son’s life.
Rich Helppie
Then you couldn’t file for guardianship involuntary.
Beverly Gille
No, I was told that you’re going to take his freedom away. Well, look at him now.
Rich Helppie
What’s happened? Maybe we should just jump to that. What’s going on with him today? Where is he?
Beverly Gille
He’s in Saline, the forensic center. And I know he’s safe. I know he’s being fed, and I know he’s got his needs. He’s getting his medication.
Rich Helppie
What led to him being eligible and routed to the center in Saline?
Beverly Gille
He was there before. He was there in 2016 when my husband and I were living in Arizona in our retirement home. We just got this home and I came home from work and I said, we’ve got to go back to Michigan, honey. And he said, I feel it too. It was a parental instinct. We needed to get back home. We sold our home, came back to Michigan. Had to settle into the home we bought in Houghton Lake. Then we talked to community mental health, we said, we want to meet up with Brad, we’re back. They were happy that we were back, but when we saw Brad we knew he was sick. My husband and I knew he was not well. We told them, Brad’s not doing good. And they said, Oh, he’s fine. We see him all the time. It’s like, no, he isn’t.
Judge Milton Mack
Let me ask you this. 2016, forensic center admission. Why was he there?
Beverly Gille
This is why we came back. We felt something was very wrong or going wrong. He thought he saw a funeral procession, and he thought his dad was in that hearse. Apparently he saw the burial and everything. I guess he stole a shovel from Home Depot, from what I...
Judge Milton Mack
He was arrested?
Beverly Gille
No, that’s not why. It was just he went and tried to dig up this grave and tore some headstones apart. This is so hard for me to even comprehend that he would do that. But he thought his dad was buried alive, and he wanted to get his dad out of that grave. His belief is that in Israel, their tombs are on top of the ground and he believes that people shouldn’t be buried below the ground, that it’s wrong. That’s one of his beliefs, and he’s very strong on that to this day. My husband talked to Brad on the phone and now he’s in jail in Petoskey (Judge Milton Mack: Back then?) Yes, in 2016. He was picked up because I think he went and told them what he did. You know, I’m not exactly sure.
Judge Milton Mack
That detail is not that important. But do you know which court he was in?
Beverly Gille
He was in the district court.
Judge Milton Mack
District Court sent him to a forensic center for? Was it to determine competency? (Beverly Gille: Yes, yes.) Was he determined competent or not? (Beverly Gille: Ahhhh... NGRI.) Right, so he was determined not competent to stand trial, was found to be not guilty by reason of insanity. (Beverly Gille: Yes.) And charges were dismissed.
Rich Helppie
Let’s just... terminology: forensic center and NGRI?
Judge Milton Mack
NGRI, that’s not guilty by reason of insanity. So when a person is charged with a crime, they can claim that they were unable to comprehend what they were doing. Then the first thing they do is send you to the forensic center to determine if are you competent or not.
Rich Helppie
Is the forensic center an inpatient center? (Judge Milton Mack: Yes.) Alright, so it’s inpatient, it’s evaluation, and inpatient like what we used to call a mental hospital?
Judge Milton Mack
Right. Now, the standard for competency to stand trial is very low. If you can understand that the lawyer next to you is defending you, and this lawyer on the other side is trying to put you in jail, and the person with the black robe is hearing your case; it’s very low. So to be found not competent to stand trial, you’ve got to have some serious problem. Then the next step is they try to restore competency at the forensic center. If they do, you go to trial, and then at trial, the jury can find that you’re not guilty by reason of insanity, or they can find you guilty but mentally ill, or they can find you guilty. I don’t know what happened in his case, but since he was found not guilty by reason of sanity, then that would have pushed it into the civil side. In other words, he would have been presumably petitioned in the probate code by a probate judge, petitioned for hospitalization, as of 2016 we still didn’t have a system of outpatient treatment up and running.
Rich Helppie
Here’s this family, and now he’s done something, and he couldn’t even meet this threshold definition of competency. He goes in - I almost afraid to ask this - they had him in the forensic center, and then they released him back to continue his life at some point?
Beverly Gille
Well, they gave him a five year probation. That’s when he would go into the AFC homes.
Rich Helppie
What’s AFC?
Beverly Gille
Adult foster care.
Rich Helppie
Okay, adult foster care, I see. So your family bounced from teenage crisis, forensic center, community mental health, criminal charges, probation, now into adult foster care, and you were empowered to actually intervene, and is he taking his medications and going to counseling and becoming a compliant patient at that time?
Beverly Gille
When he was in the AFC home, because he was under the jurisdiction of the court, he had to get his medication, and he had to adhere to everything that he was given, otherwise the threat to Brad was that if he breaks any of those rules, he goes back to square one, back to Saline.
Judge Milton Mack
But what happened at the time, they had these five year contracts, that’s been changed. But on the five year contract, the probate court was required to issue an order that you’re a person requiring treatment for another year, and year after year, they just keep renewing. Is that what happened with him?
Beverly Gille
He got a renewal after the five year. He got another year of renewal.
Judge Milton Mack
Right, and so I’m really curious about what happened at the end of the last renewal, did they just drop?
Beverly Gille
Yeah. They closed the book on my son.
Judge Milton Mack
Yeah, so she’s not in a position to do anything about that.
Beverly Gille
They closed the book on him in October of ‘24...
Judge Milton Mack
So a year before.
Rich Helppie
So he was 41.
Beverly Gille
[Inaudible, cross-talk] AFC home that whole time since the forensic center. He moved to the first AFC home, and then he got transferred to a second one. And the second one, I knew it was in Afton, but I didn’t know where.
Judge Milton Mack
So your problem was, as you’re getting towards the end of the last extension, there’s no limit on how many extensions you can have. The problem is she can’t ask for one, only the medical professional can file a petition to extend.
Rich Helppie
But he’s not under care. I mean, the court ordered the adult foster care. They got it renewed and renewed, and then how was the decision made to end adult foster care?
Beverly Gille
At that time, Brad called me and said, Mom, they said that if I have a family member and I could live with you, I can get out of my probation early. I had a phone call back around 2016 from one of the community mental health workers. Her name is Carol, she’s retired. She called me from her home, and she said, Bev, you have to promise me something. And I’m like, What’s that, Carol? She said, you’ve got to promise me. And I’m like, Okay, I don’t usually do backwards promises, but what is it? And she said, you’ve got to promise me to never let Brad live with you. Now, right there, it told me Brad’s dangerous and she knows he’s dangerous, and if he gets off his medication he’s going to hurt somebody. So when Brad asked me, I told him, Brad, because you and your brothers have all been in the court system, the court asked me never to let you live with me. My husband passed away in ‘21 and now I’m alone so I can’t chance my safety knowing that Brad could be dangerous if he doesn’t take his medication - if he isn’t ordered to take it.
Rich Helppie
Ultimately, in a tragic event in Traverse City, he did show he was very dangerous. Are you comfortable telling the audience about the day?
Beverly Gille
Well, Brad loved marijuana. Now he was out on the streets, and I kept in touch with him the best I could. I have another issue with another son that I’m also dealing with. But legal dispensaries, Brad could go in now and he’s got his social security, he can go buy pot. He can make himself sick twice as fast because he cannot have alcohol or marijuana or any kind of drugs. It just deteriorates him so much faster.
Rich Helppie
Bev, in our conversation, there was a well publicized case in Traverse City, Michigan where a man stabbed many people in a Walmart. That was your son, Brad. And thank God that the people that intervened apprehended him. What happened after that? Was he arrested? What occurred after he was arrested?
Beverly Gille
I saw... I mean, I’m not one to sit in front of a TV and watch the news anymore. I just don’t do it. I was in bed that morning, and I had my phone, like we do a lot, and it came up on the screen. It’s almost like somebody put it right there before my eyes. And I saw, people, Traverse City, and then I see this guy’s face and a circle around his face. I’m like, is that Brad? He had lost so much weight, I hadn’t seen him for like nine months, he was on the streets after he was released. Then I see people shoving carts at this person. I’m like, Oh my God. And then I see him up against the police car in cuffs, and I noticed his clothing. Brad always wears cargo pants and army colored clothes. And I’m like, that’s Brad. Then when they said a 42 year old - didn’t give his name yet – I knew that was my son. So I called Traverse City jail, and I said, this is Beverly Gille. Do you have my son with you? And they said, yes, hold on and they got the sergeant on the phone for me. But what I don’t understand, honestly, is he was in Petoskey, and those officers there told him, you have to move, Brad, you have to get out of here. He was sleeping on the streets of Petoskey. Brad he grew up in that area, for 28 years that was home to him. He knew not to sleep on the streets. He was wet with rain, in the park, and they told him to he had to leave. He probably got the bus, I don’t know, he traveled by bus all the time, and he ended up in Traverse City. But I don’t understand - and maybe you can help me with that, your Honor - they claimed that they had to have a pickup order for him. They had to go and get a pickup order. But they’re officers, and they know Brad, and they could see he was not well and he was in wet clothes. Isn’t it to serve and to protect? What happened to those?
Judge Milton Mack
That’s part of the problem of the authority of law enforcement. The statute, for a long time required that they have to observe that he’s involved in a situation which poses a risk of serious harm to someone immediately. Now, the statute has been changed, and so we’re trying to educate law enforcement on the changes in statute. It’s one of the things I do every month. I present to law enforcement at the Detroit Wayne Integrated Health Network on crisis intervention training. I find out what their authority is now, which is broader than it used to be in terms of transporting someone to a crisis center. I think if you find someone in that situation, you really should transport them to a crisis center and let things go from there. That’s the better option. The crisis center, they can sort out what to do.
Rich Helppie
The inaction by the police, toward a young man that they knew who was out in the open, being rained on, ended up with 11 people being injured and now young Mr. Gille, 42 years old, is in the forensic center. Lord knows what’s going to happen next. But Judge Mack, you’ve been so involved now with legislation... look, now we’ve got a 28 year run from the first time the Gille family had this shoved into their life in such profound way. If the legislation that’s being worked on today had been in place when young Brad was 14 years old, would the path be any different? Would it be any better, and how so?
Judge Milton Mack
Far better. Number one, the fact that he was an adult would not preclude Bev from being aware of where the situation was and communicating with the people at the hospital. We put that in the statute. Number two, she could file a petition herself with the probate court and skip the hospital altogether, because she could say, look, he doesn’t understand his need for treatment. He’s at risk of harm. He needs help. She could file a petition for assisted outpatient treatment on her own without the hospital being involved. Now the statute changes we’re talking about would enable persons other than psychiatrists to testify. One of the problems you have is the thought that only psychiatrists can testify. This would expand who can testify, as to need for treatment, to psychiatric nurse practitioners, physician assistants operating under the authority of a psychiatrist, as well as psychologists. Then the person actually gets to the courthouse. But in terms of your son, when that annual order is about to expire, under the statutory change we’re proposing, you would be able to file a petition for a continuing order, and could file it ten days before, 40 days before, 50 days before - it doesn’t matter. We take that out, the little trick bag is gone, she doesn’t need a doctor’s certificate. There’s an existing order in place, she can just go ahead and file that petition. What we’re doing is empowering families. Frankly, I think there are a number of other things in the bill, but those are the things that I think make the biggest difference.
Rich Helppie
What’s the status of the legislation?
Judge Milton Mack
Well, it passed the Senate unanimously, now pending in the house. I’m working with Representative Kuhn in the House to make further changes to these bills. He and his team have put together the same four bills with modifications which reflect some of the changes we need to make this work.
Rich Helppie
Where can people find out more about the legislation, and where can they contact their state legislature about maybe supporting this?
Judge Milton Mack
You can always go online to Michigan legislature and call up the bills. The Senate bills are 219 through 222.
Rich Helppie
219-222, Senate bills, Michigan Legislature.
Judge Milton Mack
Then we have bills in the House. Some of them are in draft stage now. They’re not really online yet, but they will be. And we have a Republican sponsor in the house, Democratic sponsor in the Senate. The only challenge we’re going to have is when they finally get these bills done, you’ve got to figure out who’s going to get credit. That’s the political part. But in terms of substance, this is very family friendly, designed to help people before they get in trouble. We know, for example, guardianship in Michigan, most people think that’s for the elderly. Well, if you actually check it out, over half the people who have a guardian in the state have a mental illness that was left untreated for decades. That’s why they have a guardian. If you want a reduced number of guardianships in Michigan, treat people for mental illness when they need it.
Rich Helppie
I’m so sorry for what your family’s had to experience. I pray that we will get reform. I hope there are no budget constraints and I hope that it gets done quickly, and that this governor will sign it into law.
Judge Milton Mack
There really are no budgetary problems. The evidence shows that assisted outpatient treatment reduces hospitalization by 70%, reduces length of stay, reduces homelessness, reduces drug use, reduces arrest, reduces all these things. The $5 million you wasted in one year, you wouldn’t spend it. They might spend $100,000 instead to treat people. We’re talking about re-prioritizing where we spend the money. I’ve been very clear with the legislature; I’m not asking for any money, I’m asking you to make this system work better.
Beverly Gille
Somebody put a bug in my ear about where some of the funds would come from, and said they would be from the sales of the marijuana and alcohol taxes, possibly tobacco.
Judge Milton Mack
It makes sense to take it from marijuana sales because the marijuana is such a contributor to mental illness.
Rich Helppie
We will be having an upcoming episode of The Common Bridge with Gerald Posner, a renowned investigative reporter, who is looking into the strength of the marijuana that’s available today in retail stores. It’s markedly more powerful than the stuff that was around 50 years ago on the streets. Any closing comment for the listeners, readers and viewers? I know this was difficult for you to do, but thank you for sharing your story.
Beverly Gille
Your welcome. I’m so grateful for what I’ve learned today from you. I think it could have been prevented. This whole tragic scenario could have been prevented. I never got a call. I never got a knock on my door. I discovered it all myself. That was the hard part, because somebody could have called me. An investigative reporter told me that people in the Cheboygan area made comments that they were afraid of Brad. Why didn’t somebody call me? Brad knew to pull away on phone calls to me. He could text me. If he talked to me on the phone he would start saying things that were triggers for me to know that he’s not well, then I would have done something. But one of the things that would help too, is when he would get picked up, the HIPPA law, they would shut me out. I would be up two days straight trying to figure out where he is, and he’d get on a bus and I would find out he’s in Atlanta, Georgia. I would have detectives looking for him for me, and lose many days of sleep trying to find out where he was, because he would just travel. He was a traveling man, and now - today -I talked to him on the phone on the way down here and he said he hates this country. He wants to go. He’s got a passport. He went and learned how to get a passport, and he wants to move to another country.
Judge Milton Mack
Part of the problem we have is the culture, as you’ve described in the beginning of this podcast. People said, well, his liberty, interests, self determination and so forth are at stake. I was doing a presentation in Texas a couple of years ago, I met a young man who was a co-presenter named Eric Smith, and he had a long history of mental illness and substance abuse, criminal behavior, threatened to kill his parents. A judge put him in an assistant outpatient treatment plan. He’s now back to baseline and now he’s a public speaker, being very successful. And he says, people who think that not treating mental illness provides for liberty and choice; they’re wrong. When you have an untreated mental illness, you have no liberty, you have no choice. It’s with treatment that you restore liberty and you restore choice. And so that’s what we’re trying to do here. These are individuals who... we’re not asking for hospitalization, we’re asking for early intervention to help people get well.
Rich Helppie
The default being that the order is going to continue, versus the default being the order is going to end. We don’t need more mothers like Bev going through this situation. We’ve been talking today with the Honorable Judge Milton Mack about legislation that is moving through the Michigan Legislature to reform the mental health system. We’ve also heard firsthand from Beverly Gille about the journey of her son and its terrible emotional toll. With our guests today, this is your host, Rich Helppie, signing off on The Common Bridge.
