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Brian Kruger
Welcome to The Common Bridge. This is part two of Rich's conversation with Robert Greenfield. It's part two of three parts. If you'd like to go back and listen to the first part, that is episode 221. You can find that at the commonbridge.substack.com or you can find that on YouTube or your favorite podcast channel. So without any further delay, we join Rich and Robert Greenfield in conversation.
Richard Helppie
But this leads us to our now very interesting political situation we have; I like to caption it the election deniers versus the dimension deniers just to keep things simple. It's your name your poison. You've watched with - I'm sure - great interest, the serial prosecutions of Donald Trump. What do you make of this?
Robert Greenfield
Well, if you listen to Donald Trump, his latest gallows humor is one more indictment and I guarantee my re-election. [Laughter.]
Richard Helppie
Have a look at the polls. It's pretty much there.
Robert Greenfield
I tried to look at it from the base. Today I asked a question on my blog; will the age of either Trump or Biden change your vote? All polls say no, age is not going to. Essentially what people are locked in on is they either hate Trump or - they don't always hate Biden - they [say] well, if it's going to be Trump, I've got to vote for Biden. The Democrats, as you've already said, they've locked in Biden, they're not going to push him out the door. Biden, in my view, should have had his four years, did a great why I did this, and bring in somebody like Gavin Newsom or somebody like that, somebody who has youth and has got...I know you're going to say he was...California, which is...but he's not all bad in California...but somebody that is an alternative to the situation. Trump is I think...I have been pushing very hard through my blog that all of the persons that are running on the GOP side not named Trump, should be attacking Trump. They have to not attack each other but they cannot support Trump every time he gets an indictment. Doesn't matter what they think, if they want to win they've got go all Chris Christie. In fact, the other day, I made a proposal that DeSantis and Christie should join together, should do town halls together and should mock Trump, just like Trump mocks everybody else. Between the two of them, they could do a real frick and frack, kind of back and forth because somebody has to break the lock.
Richard Helppie
Now you know how that will get reported; GOP brings two white dudes in (Robert Greenfield: Cisgendered.) yeah, right, to sustain the patriarchy. Look, they're both qualified. Again, whether Chris Christie or Ron DeSantis is your favorite candidate or not, no one can argue that they're not qualified. They've proven they know how to run a government and the (Robert Greenfield: At the executive level.) at the executive level; they're good people. Chris Christie, I just saw yesterday, is up 13% now in New Hampshire, is overtaking him and Christie's doing that, he's attacking Trump. And as you know, he was a big supporter of Trump. He said, I backed him at that time because I thought it was the best choice, since then here are the things he's done so he has to go. So good for Chris Christie. It's interesting that you mentioned will the Democrats replace Joe Biden with someone like Gavin Newsom. If I'm a Democrat, I'm looking at, is that the best we've got? Gavin Newsom's track record in California - you just got done saying is abysmal. I mean, you can't find a policy that Gavin Newsom did not do well on the environment, on education, (Robert Greenfield: Talk about reparations.) taxes, yeah, right, talk about going down the woke tunnel. On the other side, Gavin Newsom run against...I mean, actually, I'd love to see that; Ron DeSantis against Gavin Newsom or Gavin Newsom against Chris Christie. (Robert Greenfield: Cage matched well.) Well, DeSantis would win a decisive victory. I've been to Florida many times, know lots of people in Florida, Florida is doing really well. People like it. DeSantis was re-elected with huge amounts of Independents and Democrats. That media system is trying to beat him down, trying to make him look like something that he's not. But once I think he gets out there, he's going to do okay - if - if people are looking for a seasoned executive with reasonable policy ideas.
Robert Greenfield
My feeling about DeSantis is this, let's say you're right, but you can't do it by baby steps. You can't do it like yesterday, he said, well, of course Trump lost in 2020, which of course got immediate blow-back from the MAGA crowd. He's either got to be all in about Donald Trump is not our guy; I'm our guy.
Richard Helppie
I think he is in there. But let's say people that are running around wearing the COVID masks; they were told that at one time and they're still going to run around with that. Donald Trump said the election was stolen and there are people that will go to their grave believing that. Now where our media system failed, it would have been to me fairly easy to say, here's the assertion that Donald Trump made about the election not being done properly. Here's the people that we're bringing on that will explain to you what they saw. Those stories were never written, never produced, so it leaves this lingering doubt out there. Now, I want to say something about that. The one that I know, and I've said this before on my show, in the state of Michigan in 2016, 75,000 ballots were Democrat down ballot that either voted for Trump or left president open; wouldn't vote for Hillary Clinton but clear Democrats down ballot. Donald Trump won the state by 10,000; surprise. Fast forward to 2020, Democrats come home, you have the reverse of that where down ballot it's all Republican and President Biden or blank. So from my lens, there's no doubt Donald Trump lost the state Michigan in 2020. The numbers bear that out, it's easily explainable. They want to make this deal about Antrim County. Antrim County, there's like 6,000 voters and within 12 hours they realize they loaded the wrong parameter file. They've corrected it but still people still want to talk about that. So Trump perpetuating this notion is all about the worst parts of the narcissistic Donald Trump. It's all about him. I frankly think he believes it. I think that's part of his personal issues, is that he can't bring himself to look at himself as a guy that got beat. I just think he just can't do it.
Robert Greenfield
Yeah, I wrote about this also last week, about him and his personality, and the way I look at it, he's like the kid that nobody ever said no to. Every time he had a problem his dad came in and fixed it, Dad would even maybe buy a school or whatever. He's always been coddled his whole life. I think that he has built into his own mind, according to what you're saying, that he can't lose. He can't lose. Once he won 2016, he's almost like he's the Messiah in his own mind. He can't lose and it's only about him. (Rich Helppie: Absolutely.) That's the only thing that it's about. But I want to go back not to...
Richard Helppie
Let's stay on this topic. Look, Biden is the Democratic National Committee's nominee because they're not going to run anything about him, they're not going to put him out there for any debates, they're not going to let the country see him and evaluate him, (Robert Greenfield: Again.) okay, yeah, exactly right, that's a given. Will Donald Trump be the nominee? We'll see when Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina [vote], start to see if he actually has the votes. We will find that out, I think we're all going to learn that together. But given those two choices, doesn't it make sense - coupled with the growing of Independents - that we have a third party or maybe a fourth party?
Robert Greenfield
Yeah. What's the Chinese American guy - Yang (Rich Helppie: haven't heard from him in a long time.) Well, he...they have the Founders party or something. (Rich Helppie: The Forward Party.) Forward Party. I think this; the answer to that is yes, I think so. As somebody pointed out in one of my things that I wrote, the Whig Party disappeared and the Republican Party resulted from that. Pretty much around anti-slavery was the reason why the Republican Party was formed. They almost instantly won an election; Lincoln lost in 1856 to Stephen Douglas, by 1860 he won the presidency. So things can change, can change very quickly, I think. Are we at that tipping point in US history where one or two of the parties will disappear or whether a third party is viable? I don't know but the problem with the third party, as you know, is we're not in a parliamentary system, which means that they can't take their votes and then add it to the other guy to create a majority. You've got to win it outright. You've got to win state by state. The closest guy that came to that was a man of personal conviction, Ross Perot, and he at least had personal conviction. I think he's the one reason why Clinton won, as you know. So there's a spoiler side to this, that if it was done right - it's going to take a really strong candidate, it's not going to be Yang and his Forward Party talking values and systems - it's got to be somebody who says, I don't think that either of these two guys represent us, and like Ross Perot, stand up and say, I represent you.
Richard Helppie
Well, Perot would have probably won the election had he not dropped out. But there's now the No Labels Party with Joe Lieberman central to this. They're trying to get on the ballot in 50 states. I am an eternal optimist so my belief would be that if that No Labels Party got on the ballot in 50 states and they ran reasonable people, they're going to give Independents a place to go. (Robert Greenfield: Not Ralph Nader.) Yeah, right, exactly. Look, there have always been those parties that appeal to a certain "fringier" element, low popularity. But I think there's such a demand for better government that there really is a chance for 270 electoral votes. And if you think about it, a third party could run well in...let's just presume it's Trump... California, New York, Texas, and Florida. Win two of those states, you're on your way at that point. I think here in the upper Midwest, people would welcome an opportunity to vote other than for Joe Biden, because what it does, to your point earlier, the only reason people want to vote for Joe Biden is to stop Donald Trump. That's it. You can't make a case for Joe Biden based on his vigor, on his vision, on his ethics.
Robert Greenfield
Well, that's the number one reason that's for sure.
Richard Helppie
Nobody's making a case for Joe Biden and making a case for Donald Trump's very difficult. I mean, if I was running against Donald Trump, I'd say, you saw what you got for four years; I pledge to read my presidential daily briefing, I pledge not to give a crap about the size of my inauguration crowds, I pledge not to fiddle away the day watching Fox News, I pledge not to be a narcissist when the country is faced with issues. That's how I'd run against him. (Robert Greenfield: You won.) Again, but right now, there's no place for your Independent voter to go. It's either the extreme Trump or it's the pathetic Joe Biden, that's where we sit.
Robert Greenfield
So constitutionally, is the question for all this...and I don't...I'll have to look it up. But let's say there's 435...sorry, 535 electoral votes. So let's say, Trump and Biden each have 200 and somebody else has 170, nobody has 270. So constitutionally, how's that go?
Richard Helppie
Goes into the House of Representatives and each delegation gets one vote. So I don't know what happens in the event of a 25-25 tie. But...
Robert Greenfield
Then it goes to, I think, Speaker of the House has a tie breaking vote.
Richard Helppie
Yes. But under that scenario, here would be the challenge for the Congress. The challenge of the Congress would be you've got two entrenched parties on equal footing and it's going to be a partisan measure. If, let's say the Republicans, who have a slight majority now - I don't know, I believe they have a bigger majority now with the delegates - that would look completely partisan. In a past era it would be Democrats [saying] we didn't win; Republicans [saying] we didn't win; let's give it to the third party and let's all...
Robert Greenfield
It's interesting you say that, obviously the Democrats are terrified of this because the small states have the same equality of California; Montana gets one vote, California gets one vote.
Richard Helppie
Montana has got a Democratic senator though. Look, the Democrats have shown they're not the party of democracy. They shut down any competition in 2016, they shut it down in 2020.
Robert Greenfield
You're talking about internal to the party.
Richard Helppie
Yeah, they've shut it down and, well, let's talk about external. During the Biden administration, they censored people off of Facebook, they censored people off of Twitter, people that actually read the reporting that Matt Taibbi has done, they said, we don't like this person's opinion, not only take down the post, take down the person. This is the kind of power that we're seeing the Democrats exercise when they're in power, as if this notion is we're going to create one version of the truth, eliminate any other discussion, and that's going to be saving democracy. It's an outrage. But if you bring that up, wait a minute we don't like the censoring, well, you must be a MAGA Republican.
Robert Greenfield
Yeah, okay. Well, I've read that Matt Taibbi stuff, I think Matt takes certain things and then he twists it to what his belief is, okay. So any...
Richard Helppie
Give me an example of that because I've read him thoroughly and objectively, and it can be no mistake, stop this post, this person needs to be eliminated. And a lot of times [it was] like a retired guy in Springfield, Ohio. I went in looking for that but that was the spin that the Democrats, and that was the spin that the media complex came up with, oh, he cherry picked. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz in Congress (Robert Greenfield: That's a bad example.) accused him of cherry picking, that cherry picking story is complete bullshit.
Robert Greenfield
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, I mean, come on. She blew off Hillary Clinton and she was running the Democratic National Committee at the time. So that's not make...
Richard Helppie
But what I'm saying is that, by way of example, that's who they sent out to try to oppose Matt Taibbi's sworn testimony, because that's how much of a loser that cherry picking story was.
Robert Greenfield
That's like arguing with Ben Shapiro. It's not easy. I'm talking about [cross talk]
Richard Helppie
Yeah, but Taibbi had the facts; here's the email, here's the result that happened. There's no question that Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook and pre Elon Musk's Twitter censored people at the request of the administration. And here's the two come-backs to that; well, Twitter and Facebook aren't the government so it's not a First Amendment violation. If you're doing the bidding of the government...
Robert Greenfield
My understanding of what they did was, let's say Twitter as an example. Which, by the way, I did not agree with any of the previous way that Twitter was running, even though my daughter works for another Jack Dorsey company. But I think that...and he was in charge at that time, as you know. So my understanding what Twitter did was this, so the people that they put in charge were not actually born in this country, they were all immigrants who had a strong bias, let's just leave it at that. They put them in charge and they were even more biased. So I agree with you on that. What they then did was they had a representative - not a representative - they had a weekly meeting with people in the administration or - not Biden people - but people in the administration who talked about, wow, what are these kinds of guys saying, and their spin on it is that these were extremist people. That's what they they say. Now I don't agree with that. I also feel that when he bought the company - Elon Musk bought the company - I mean, it's taken a massive nosedive, but he bought the company. That's the one thing about capitalism in this country, if you got enough money, you can buy somebody and you can do what you want.
Richard Helppie
But the point is that the Biden administration did meet regularly at these social media companies and the evidence is clear that that was for a political purpose. Because, by way of example, The New York Post accurate reporting about the Hunter Biden laptop was throttled and shut down in a coordinated basis on social media and people said that would have changed their vote. This is where we first heard about "the big guy" and look, can we stipulate that Hunter Biden has no qualifications to be on the board of an energy company or any other company.
Robert Greenfield
Nor do any of the Trump kids, okay, so [cross talk]
Richard Helppie
I won't argue that one [inaudible] I want to talk about does...(Robert Greenfield: no, he does not.) okay, he does not. So now here comes this truthful story out, if that's not absolute election interference, I don't know what it is. But if you say wait a minute that you shouldn't have done that, well, you must be a Trump guy because throttling the story helped Biden, unthrottling the story helped Trump. If you believe in a free press you must be in the in the tank for Trump. That's the logic that we're at right now. It's an insane place to be.
Robert Greenfield
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I think that what has...
Richard Helppie
Should Twitter have allowed the New York Post, the oldest newspaper in the United States, with a factual story, should they have stopped that story the way they did?
Robert Greenfield
The answer to that is no. But anything that's a Murdoch thing, people feel...
Richard Helppie
Again, this is how people are demonized. It's that guy saying it versus whether it's true or not. This is where... you talked about civics, pledge of allegiance and we need to be able to, for God's sake, say, that's wrong. Not, it can't be right because Rupert Murdoch's there.
Robert Greenfield
So looking at things in hindsight, go back 120 years, we had what were called - from Horace Greeley to the Hearst family – muckrakers - and they put out whatever the heck they wanted to put out to push their political persuasion. This has been...that's a first amendment right, you say what you want to say, that kind of thing, especially what we're talking about, that's media. The flip side is over on Twitter with this section 230, they are supposed to pretty much govern themselves. So how that's been handled, I think that's definitely a place for people to look at how that's handled. First of all, Facebook outside of the United States, none of that stuff goes, the local governments all censor it because they want to control the message. In China, you don't have Facebook, they have other social media and it's all government related. So social media has a particular problem. There needs to be, in my view, it needs to be looked at. As far as...
Richard Helppie
You're making a case that the Biden administration and the Chinese Communist Party are of one mind when it comes to censoring Facebook. Look, that's just not a good argument to make. And when we had...
Robert Greenfield
I was not making that argument...
Richard Helppie
Well, it did sound like that. And you look at, from within the Biden administration, let's get 50 former intelligence directors to say that this looks like Russian disinformation. Joe Biden knew it wasn't Russian disinformation when he stood in front of the American people and said, what Trump's accusing me of is Russian disinformation and I'm listening for, okay, who's calling him on this? And again, I don't like Donald Trump. I don't want Donald Trump to be my president. I don't want Donald Trump to be a nominee. I just want Donald Trump to retire quietly someplace and go away. But the answer can't be Trump is so bad that our only answer is Joe Biden. We've now had this emerging story of corruption and the bank accounts, the money transfers, and the same people that believe that Bill Clinton just happened to run into Loretta Lynch on a tarmac they also believe that Joe Biden is the highest paid weatherman in the world. Because for stopping by and talking about the weather on a speakerphone, millions flowed to his family. Now, does anybody really believe that's what he did? Hello, it's rainy out today. Remember, I never talked to Hunter's business people? Well, maybe I did but it was only about the weather.
Robert Greenfield
The best reply that I had to that was recently also on my blog, a guy wrote, the Biden family does not own any helicopters, golf courses, they don't own any resorts, they don't own any hotels, they don't have any big buildings. He said they must be the worst crime family in the history of the world. So my answer is, I don't know.
Richard Helppie
Joe Biden owns seven houses, and he's only worked for the government for 50 years and contrast that with Harry Truman, okay, (Robert Greenfield: Harry Truman's not a great example.) Harry Truman is a great example of you have to be a crook to get rich in politics. Look at Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter may not have been a great president but I don't think anybody can question the man's integrity and his human-ness. (Robert Greenfield: Still lives in the same house.) Still lives in the same house.
Robert Greenfield
Harry Truman's a better story. Go ahead and tell that story. He went home by train and he didn't have a place to live. He lived with his mother-in-law.
Richard Helppie
Yeah, exactly. And if you want to say that Trump owns casinos and whatever, of course, he was a real estate developer and he made money doing it and then he went to politics. Ronald Reagan was an accomplished, wealthy guy when he went into politics and likewise, his home in the Santa Inez mountains was a very rude crude, little cabin. That's what he liked to do. So nobody wants to connect the dots that Joe Biden, who's never had a job besides public servant, how did he acquire all this stuff?
Robert Greenfield
I don't know. So far, from what I've seen - and I'd rather not just keep going down this one, because to me what's more important is where are we going in the future - but so far what I've seen with Biden and I've tried to watch Fox, there's a lot of vitriol, a lot of anger, a lot of conjecture, but I haven't seen any records. I haven't seen anybody...not reports that I can find that I can read. I do want to mention something...
Richard Helppie
The bank records are out there. And it's not about vitriol, it's about...the future is, at the moment, two crappy choices; Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
Robert Greenfield
I want to mention Hunter Biden, which I have written also on. My view on Hunter Biden...and a lot of people talk about should Joe Biden be responsible for Hunter Biden? That's a huge issue on the Right, and the Right says, absolutely. Hunter Biden is, in my view, a despicable character. He's not just a coke guy, he did a lot of bad things. Whatever is on that laptop is really horrific, kind of weird stuff. I wouldn't be proud if was his father, at all. Should Joe Biden have stood by – so-called, stood by - a lot of people say that's a good thing. If I were in Joe Biden's position, would I stand by my son? Joe Biden tries to thread the needle, as they say, but that's...sometimes you've got to say your son was a bad guy. He was not a good guy and Joe Biden doesn't say that. So what I fault him for is that you always talk about coming clean, I think what Joe Biden has not done is he did not come clean about his son and his son's problems, which are more than just drug problems.
Richard Helppie
Well, look, we can't be responsible for our relatives. I've got relatives that I wish they weren't related to me, I'm sure. But the situation is this, though with Hunter; it's not about Hunter and Hunter's behavior and his many problems. That's a distraction and that's what the Left and the media systems want people to focus on; hey, come on, the guy's got issues, but it's not Joe. But here's the problem. Hunter Biden flies back from China on Air Force Two with Joe, and you're going to private equity and in hand he's got a huge sum of money from the Chinese government to invest. That happened. No question about that. Joe Biden says, I never talked to my son about business. Really? You flew back from China after he just bagged this big deal and that never came up? It's just complete bullshit. Then it's like, oh, well, now that there's evidence that you did talk to him, well, yeah, I did but I was never in business with him. Oh, okay. Now it fast forwards to well, I did talk to the business associates, but it was nothing of consequence, it was just about the weather. It's that changing story. If you see somebody arrested for a crime, and they said I wasn't there, then oh, but someone saw you there. Oh, you know what, I was there but I was only there for a minute. Okay, well, someone else saw you there an hour later. It's drip, drip, drip that the story changes. So it's not about Hunter, it's about Joe Biden and we're not asking those questions. The jealousy over the [fact that] Donald Trump has done well in business...
Robert Greenfield
I think the Republicans have several other investigations going on about Joe Biden, Hunter Biden. Kevin McCarthy is considering impeachment. So they have the power to be able to investigate, find that and present it to the American public. If that comes out that that is actual fact, as opposed to innuendo, then it will come out. And then if that affects the...that's up to the report.
Richard Helppie
If you watch the hearings, they've got the data, they've got the documents, they've got the sworn testimony, but it's not getting reported. That's the difference. But let's shift a bit to what's getting reported. Here's Donald Trump, and now it's like he's twice impeached, five times indicted or whatever the ball score is right now. That is what you hear front and center. It's this next wave of conviction by media. I will preface this by saying I think Trump will get convicted on obstruction charges, just because obstruction is a very, very low bar to reach. But after hearing for now - what is it, seven years - armed insurrection, we're going to lose our democracy after the Mueller investigation, after the bogus story about the connection to Trump Tower to Russia, after all these stories have gone away now they get another special prosecutor, Jack Smith. Does he say there was a coup? Nope. Does he say Trump was involved in a coup? No. Does he say he was involved in an armed insurrection? Nope. He interfered with a process. Now, I think anybody that viewed Donald Trump's action on January 6 should be horrified and should never consider him for the presidency of the United States, period, full stop. His behavior was despicable. But according to the law, it was not a coup, it was not an armed insurrection but that's not the way it's being reported. Call it Trump porn. They put out this...they put out the latest thing, I swear there are people pleasuring themselves over the notion that Trump's going to go to prison.
Robert Greenfield
Well, okay. Anyway, what I watch is...basically, Jack Smith is a pretty boring guy, right?
Richard Helppie
He's been overturned by the Supreme Court 8-0 before. [Cross talk.] They had to get a guy willing to do the dirty deed.
Robert Greenfield
Anyway, obstruction and conspiracy, obstruction and conspiracy. Those are the two real charges according to my understanding. I think he's pretty obvious on obstruction. Nobody's going to say that asking Mike Pence to do the right thing, whatever, these all things we all watched in real time.
Richard Helppie
That's not the obstruction charge, the obstruction charge is (Robert Greenfield: for the Michigan...) no, no, no, the obstruction is about the records case, that after getting subpoenaed that he moved records or didn't get...(Robert Greenfield: That's the Florida case.) Yeah. (Robert Greenfield: So then the DC case is...) The DC case is conspiracy, because he supposedly talked to other people and they didn't say what about and that obstructed justice by trying to cover it up after the fact. Again, I think they're specious and fairly difficult charges. They're clearly timed to interfere with the political process. What I think is we need to take a deep breath and think about as a country is we're now faced with only one of two outcomes. One outcome is Donald Trump's convicted and the other one is that he is exonerated, found not guilty. Now what? Let's just chat about that. You're smart guy, what happens if Donald Trump is convicted?
Robert Greenfield
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on some of that.
Richard Helppie
Robert, if you and I agreed on everything we (Robert Greenfield: We wouldn't have anything to talk about.) We'd be boring, exactly. So we always like the Tigers and the Lions. Don't get me started on the Redwings because we don't have enough video here.
Robert Greenfield
Exactly. So my feeling about all of this with Donald Trump and Jack Smith, I don't share what you were saying about Jack Smith being a loser. I tried to...
Richard Helppie
His record's out there, you can look it up. He's a hero now. Remember, Robert Mueller was a hero and Robert Mueller was...he's got Trump in his sights, the walls are closing in and then it was a big nothing. Then they got him to testify and I don't think he knew how to tie his shoes at that point. Now they're doing the same thing for Jack Smith. That's the thing that...I'm astonished, people are falling for the same shtick. It's the exact same script. It's like, let's look at what actually is being charged. Yeah, they're difficult, very specious claims. They're clearly politically motivated, but they're there. Now let's go to the next thing. Donald Trump's convicted, jury comes back and says (Robert Greenfield: And then he's elected.) he's...well, let's think about...let's just say that before the election, Donald Trump is convicted.
Robert Greenfield
The question is...the answer is he's not going to go to jail, okay, that's for sure.
Richard Helppie
Well, there's a lot of people who want him in jail.
Robert Greenfield
Well, that may be true, but he's not going to go to jail. If he ever had any kind of...
Richard Helppie
Two tiered justice then, because if you obstruct and you don't go wouldn't that be two tier?
Robert Greenfield
You asked me to answer the question. [Laughter] The answer is that, as everybody knows, there are appeals and the appeal process will go - on this kind of stuff - five to seven years. There are enough kind of different - I don't want to call it holes - but there's enough information that could be asked and re-asked about. Donald Trump is never going to go to jail. If he in fact...actually, if it goes to the Supreme Court - which as you know, he asked recently to throw out everything because it's election interference, he will try anything to just keep throwing stuff in the game - I think that what will happen if he actually was convicted and loses on appeal, he would have some kind of house arrest type thing, almost like a youngster cheating or something; you've got to sit there and you can't go out and say anything, which of course he would violate. So the idea of Donald Trump actually...people that show him in the orange - Orange is the New Black for Trump - that's not going to happen ever. If you want to ask what's going to happen in terms of inside the country, I actually think that the United States is much more resilient and can handle and can survive Donald Trump. Donald Trump right now is - I don't want to say he's a distraction - but he's primarily a distraction. If he becomes president, again, he's not a distraction. He's already said (Rich Helppie: Heh?) what he would like to do; he wants to be "I am your retribution,” I am this, I am that. He's looked very carefully this time, not like last time, very carefully in how can I consolidate executive power, these kinds of things, that Congress is hopelessly divided. So it's very easy for Trump to be able to move into the executive, I am in charge. Obama made one of the worst statements he ever did and he was lauded for it at the time; “I have a pen,” that whole thing and he could write executive orders. Well, that left handed guy, and at that time Trump said, okay, well, Obama can do that, I'll write executive orders. I'll write more executive orders, I'll change this, I'll change that. I think the real reason why I could never vote for Donald Trump is I'm actually afraid of him. I'm afraid of what Donald Trump unbound could do. His own daughter says she doesn't...she's moved on, a lot of people moved on from him. He goes through people, he goes through lawyers like they're toilet paper. The problem with me with Donald Trump, it's not...you may be right, you may not be right about Biden, my problem, and I think for the majority of the American people, is that they look at Donald Trump and say they're terrified. They're like, oh, my god, if this guy actually does half the things that he says he's going to do, we're like...
Richard Helppie
I don't want you to mistake my concerns about the justice system, which are very real, and my concerns about the media complex whipping people into a frenzy, as any kind of support for Donald Trump. I think you and I agree that if we were on an executive committee and a search team brought back to run our enterprise a CEO - Donald Trump - we would say no, go find another candidate. We'd do that, we'd do the same thing with Joe Biden. So I don't want to see Donald Trump anywhere near the Oval Office period, full stop. I'm very consistent about saying that. That doesn't make Joe Biden a moral man, an uncorrupt person or a man that has got his full faculties together. We need to look at those things and say, is the best we can do as a country; Joe Biden and Donald Trump. And by the way, 70% of the voters say no.
Robert Greenfield
No, but let me ask you this. This is a real serious question for you, which is the Kamala question. I have been asked over and over; Joe Biden is old. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was not only old but dying, what happens? And if you say 70% don't want Donald Trump or Joe Biden, I'd probably say 90% don't want Kamala Harris. The number one concern I have about Joe Biden is Kamala Harris, because she has not progressed or shown that she's ready for prime-time. That really concerns me a lot. Joe Biden has made, I think, a massive all-in mistake. I've talked about this last year with you when we talked about the black women vote. The black women vote is six and a half percent of the population and they don't vote in the numbers as white women vote. It's a real...he's all-in on one...
Richard Helppie
It would have been much better if he said, I'm finding the best candidate and oh, wow, it just happened to be a female of color. Much better way to put that (Robert Greenfield: But I'm afraid if she...) I don't think there's anybody on the right, left, center that thinks she's capable, period. I've asked a lot of people and people on the...(Robert Greenfield: But he won't dump her.) He can't, she would have to be appointed to the Supreme Court or resign for health reasons or something like that. I don't want to... (Robert Greenfield: She's far too ambitious.) yeah, but this would be mean that if it's Trump-Biden, who Trump gets as his VP - and people try to vote on the VP - but nobody's going to become VP for Trump that's worth anything. This is why I think that we're stuck in a really bad place and why I hope my audience, if you're in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, any of the early primary states, please go out and vote, and vote not Donald Trump so that we get a better choice. Robert, this has been a great conversation as always, far ranging, and you're so well read and so experienced where you get out there and you do things and I can't tell you how much I enjoy speaking with you, our audience loves hearing from you. They love it when we're together talking like this. We're going to be back in a little bit. We're going to talk about indigenous peoples - we both have an interest in that - maybe DEI and affirmative action if you wouldn't mind. (Robert Greenfield: Love to.) Okay, great. We've been talking today with Robert Greenfield, a very accomplished man, very well read. You can follow him on Reddit and Quora and where do we find your blog?
Robert Greenfield
Mostly, my work is on Quora, I do a little bit on Substack. My goal is to actually produce dialogue, very similar, actually, to what Rich is doing but I don't do a lot of podcasts, I do a lot of writing. So happy to see you follow me if you have time.
Richard Helppie
And I know that a lot of people will because of the popularity of these specific episodes. So with our special guest, Robert Greenfield, this your host Rich Helppie, signing off on The Common Bridge.
(Watch, Listen or Read) Navigating Today's Political Climate.