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Thanks!
Brian Kruger
And welcome to The Common Bridge, Rich, it's great to have you back. It's the dead of summer around here, which is really cool and we get to do the thing that you and I do online here a couple of times a year, where we go into the viewer and listener and reader mail. People give us pretty cool comments. Sometimes they're a little rash, sometimes they're not, but we've put together a bunch of these - probably a dozen or more - email messages and questions for you. Are you up for it today?
Richard Helppie
Brian, actually, these episodes are fun because there's literally no preparation. Although I will say that I've read some great books lately. In particular, Steve Drummond's book about President Truman, "Watchdog," a revisit of "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner, "Listening to the Deep Research" by Leor Sapir and, of course, Ryan Busse's "Gunfight" which I think is a terrific book that I hope everybody takes the time to read.
Brian Kruger
That is fantastic, Rich. We're going to update our website; if you go to the commonbridge.com - probably next week, we'll have it - we're going to put in a library because over the past four years, we've had so many good authors. That's our very own little link to Amazon, you can buy the books. We've had so many good authors not to have that for our customers, readers, viewers and listeners to take a look at it. Anyway, are you ready to take the first swipe at the mailbag today? (Rich Helppie: Yep.) All right, this is from George Trescott. Trescott, wow, he used his whole name. Well, we've got a couple of letters with names on them. Alright, anyway, he said, "Michigan law that passed the House would make it a crime to misgender someone, it's a $10,000 fine." I think the possible jail term can be up to five years. I'm not sure if you heard this - I think you have, you and I were texting about this - tell the audience a little bit about what it really is and answer George's question; what do you think about it?
Richard Helppie
Well, it's passed the Michigan House and it still has to get passed in the Michigan State Senate, which is also a Democratic majority, and then it would go to the governor's desk. The governor hasn't said whether she's going to sign it or not but all indications are that she would pretty much need to find some flimsy reason for not signing the bill into law. It adds a bunch of things that are trying to define...I guess we can't make people feel uncomfortable anymore. I have to tell you that I found it amusing because here in Michigan, we say "you guys" - when we could be referring to a group of women. That's just how we talk.
Brian Kruger
I go in my back yard and say it about dogs, hey, you guys, come on in. [Laughter.]
Richard Helppie
Exactly. I think that when Ohio State comes to Ann Arbor to play football, they're going to have to arrest 100,000 people because of the epithets that are hurled there. [Laughter.] So I think with this one we'll just wait and see if it becomes law. It's more speech codification and you couple this with the censoring and you have to wonder where it all leads to: George Orwell, and Rich Helppie, Matt Taibbi and others. So let's just wait and see what happens. But in this particular state, good luck enforcing.
Brian Kruger
So do you think this is just being positioned to help our governor run more on a national level because this is compelled speech? There's really nothing quite like this, where you have to say something and if you don't say it the way it's written into law, you go to jail. That's crazy.
Richard Helppie
Our governor is really a tragic tale, frankly. She started off picking up where Rick Snyder left off with, I don't care who gets the credit, we're going to all work together, we're Michiganders, we know how to do that. Then she got in a little fight with Trump and every cable network wanted to hear a little soundbite; she started thinking that was her job. Then she got carried away with executive orders during COVID. I mean, they were insane when you look at them. She kept saying she was going to follow the science and then never told us what science was. Then of course, the nadir of poor leadership, [she] tells nine million Michiganders to stay home, not visit their elderly relatives, then she travels to go see her elderly relative. She's being packaged for a national run. She could be running on effective governing and yet, just what I've reiterated. Then in the lightly televised debates, she scoffed and said, well, what? Kids were out of school for three months. Was anybody watching that? [Laughter] Did a double take, but anyway, she is being positioned, and if this is the best that her party has to offer, well, I hope that the other party or a third party or a fourth party comes up with something better. We don't really feel like she's doing much here but posturing and the like.
Brian Kruger
I remember talking to you years ago, you must be disappointed, because out of the gate, you had some some hope for her.
Richard Helppie
Oh, her first State of the State address was outstanding; right tone, right messaging. She has party loyalties - don't they all - but it was really the right tone. This is, again, my view, she took a pivot when every cable group was calling her up and she was making a sound bite, because if you made a sound bite that was anti-President Trump you could get on network. (Brian Kruger: So she got stars in her eyes is what you're saying.) She got stars in her eyes is what I see and then forgot what her job was, and still seems to forget what her job is. But look we're Michiganians, we'll get through this. Effectively, there is no Republican party in Michigan anymore. In fact, today, in the latest bout of crazy, they endorsed Donald Trump for president, this being the 12th of July. It's a morally and politically incomprehensible act. Trump's not electable in a general election, period. Nobody wants his show back. Again, if you look at the polls, nobody wants to see Joe Biden in the Oval Office after his term, and nobody wants to see Donald Trump back. Yet, the Republican committee in Michigan makes the endorsement today. It's suicidal.
Brian Kruger
But like you said - and your guest a couple of weeks ago, Brian Kelly - the Republican party is dead in Michigan and that's steeped in irony because as we know, the Republican party was founded in Jackson, Michigan.
Richard Helppie
The Republican party in recent years won landslides, made terrific progress across all fronts: economic, education, getting the city of Detroit turned around through bipartisan working with Governor Snyder and Mayor Duggan to get the bankruptcy through. And of course, I'm a bit of a homer, I admit, but I will tell you, anybody that's looking for a city on the upswing - young people - come to Detroit. Chicago, San Francisco, LA, those places, they're on the downhill slide and Detroit's on the ascendancy. So many good things happening here. Come take a look.
Brian Kruger
I totally, totally agree. Let's move on to the next one. We ran your Fourth of July message again, because it continues to grow an audience. Do you want to capsulate what that was and talk about the positive remarks? You got a wide, wide range of positive remarks; again, that's why we run it. Don Baker wanted to congratulate you, he wrote in and said "Thanks for running that again." He listened to it three times. What do you have to say about that and the popularity of that particular message?
Richard Helppie
Well, thank you, Don Baker. First of all, it was something I came up with when a guest had to get rescheduled. I thought about two things with that, like with birthdays, we don't go to celebrate someone's birthday and say, hey, we've got a list of all the things you've ever done wrong in your life. Here are all the times you didn't live up to your aspirations and your own ideals. We're not going to beat you over the head with that, P.S. Happy Birthday. We hope this is your last one. That's not what we do. But people want to do that with the country. We've not been a perfect country but the challenge is, if you were going to structure a country today, from a clean sheet of paper, what would you do? And that, to me is the challenge. Nobody's been able to come up with anything better. One of the management constructs in management consulting is structure, process, and people; our structure is actually really, really good. Nobody's come up with anything better. Process - pretty good, the balance of powers - three co-equal branches, obviously works and that ebbs and flows. The way a bill becomes law, that process is pretty good. Our problem today is people. When you have a government that tries to control what they think the truth is, control the press, suppress the rights that are in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, then you're in trouble; the whole system breaks down if there are not people that are actually trying to morally and evenhandedly to uphold the Constitution. I probably need to run another one of these that says, we've got the right structure, processes are working and we need better people in government and we need better people in the media.
Brian Kruger
I don't know how you get there. But you're totally right, with colleges shutting down their J schools - journalism, almost as a degree, doesn't exist anymore. You just wonder, what the heck...
Richard Helppie
The journalists were supposed to be the watchdogs on the government, not the people that picked up the party line and propagated it. They freely admitted that they were dropping that objectivity. They didn't see that as their role anymore. They see themselves as businesses that need readers' clicks and eyeballs to sell advertising. They'll prostitute themselves in any way they need to, to get that. You see that through all the punditry; the paid pundits that are on the major cable networks prostituting themselves with more outlandish claims and things that are objectively untrue but they're doing it for a paycheck.
Brian Kruger
Let's move on to the next and this is from a...[cross talk]
Richard Helppie
[Laughter] Have you got any happy questions in there?
Brian Kruger
No, but this one's a little more fun. It's funny, because of who it's from. It's from somebody called T Rex and all they want to know is what's with all the cocaine in the White House. [Laughter]
Richard Helppie
All the cocaine in the White House? [Laughter] There's more? Well, look, when the story broke, first of all the Secret Service, they found that on a sweep, and like, okay, that's interesting. And immediately upon announcing that they had located this substance, they said, well, we're probably never going to know who did it. I'm thinking, well, that's giving up pretty easily. [Laughter] First, it was reported that it was in the library. No, it was in a heavily trafficked area. And then no, oh, no, no, it's in a less trafficked area where the vice president's vehicle is parked and near the Situation Room. Nobody knows how it got there because, of course, there are no cameras there - I'm being facetious, of course - no visitors logs, no cameras, we have no idea who did it. I find this situation painfully funny because it reflects poorly on the Biden White House, therefore, it's not a story. I don't care about Hunter Biden; the man's obviously had a lot of issues. Somebody that has access to the Situation Room, you want them blowing a line inside the Situation Room? I mean, that would be a situation, but I don't think that's the intent of the Situation Room.
Brian Kruger
All right. This is from Bob Geils. He said, “Trump's been indicted in Florida for documents. Now he wants a delay. What do you think about that?”
Richard Helppie
Look, if history is any guide - and I'm a pattern recognizer, I was a computer programmer, it's all about patterns, [inaudible] companies, it's about what are the patterns as an investor, what are the patterns here? It's the same story, big headlines, big scandal, okay; we've got him now, Donald Trump's the worst person on the planet. He doesn't help himself, by the way, with his behavior because it actually helps make a case for that, but I'm talking about back to the pee-pee tapes and the Russian investigation, and there was a line between the Trump Tower and Washington, and on and on and on. It's all the same thing: get the basics cited, leak information, and as it dies out the baton is handed to the next one of those things. So as the New York chase dies its rightful death, then we have a situation in Florida. Now I said from the onset of the Trump presidency, that if the Democrats kept acting like this when he does something, nobody's going to believe it. So now they're saying that he didn't turn documents back, okay, he should have given the things back, lots of knowledgeable people said, give the darn things back but they're trying to try him on the Espionage Act and that's a far reach. So my sense is that Trump's going to get convicted on one of the obstruction charges; there are three obstruction charges. Obstruction is a pretty low bar, almost anything can be obstruction. A reasonable person would say, yeah, I might have done that, too, I didn't realize that was obstruction. So I think he's going to get convicted of something and then we're going to have a real dilemma because you've got people that want to see Trump incarcerated, bankrupted, etc. Not because he took documents, but because of all these other things that it's already been proven he didn't do. Remember the New York Times - and I read every word of it - oh, he was actually handed more money by his father. Basically, it's insane. Anybody that understands accounting understands what a bad story that is. His CFO went to jail over the way that they entered some of their expenses, which is ridiculous. And now this current case in New York, they took one act, repeated it 37 times. Is it any surprise that Donald Trump maybe paid off a porn star? Doesn't surprise me. But what makes it a felony is it's only a felony if it's linked to a felony - but what's the felony, Allen Bragg? Not going to tell you, P.S. I'm going to wait until the first of the year. Oh, good, right in time for the primaries. So it's clearly political acts that are going on. Anybody that wants to try to make a case that this is sober-minded, even-handed justice is completely insane. It's indefensible. I invite anybody to come on my show that can make that case; indeed, I've invited them, they won't come because they know they can't defend the things that they're saying in the left wing media. Whether Trump is convicted on this particular item or not, it is politically motivated, make no mistake about that. I don't want to see the guy anywhere near the Oval Office but it would have been so much easier if the Democrats would behave like adults and let people see how unqualified Donald Trump is and he'd have been out.
Brian Kruger
Don't you think that this just empowers him because they've been so bad at getting him?
Richard Helppie
Exactly. I know that when I hear it, it's the same script, and now they're leaking things about this case. If you were really going to go to trial and take somebody down, you're not telling the press that you're going to go in and nail the guy. All it is, it's conviction by media and there's a whole industry that does it - and by the way, there's an audience. Again, they're debating whether they want him to just broke or be incarcerated or both, but most of them, they remind me of Linus in the field waiting for the Great Pumpkin.
Brian Kruger
[Chuckle] I guess. Mary Banks wants to know if you think that Chris Christie, and everybody else getting into the race on the Republican side, is going to make a debate stage; if it happened, divide all those votes up, and Trump can still get that nomination with 25-30 percent of the support.
Richard Helppie
Oh, good try, Brian, I can see that our reader or listener or view is trying to get us to make a quip about the space on the debate stage if Chris Christie enters the race. Okay, good try, but I'm not going there. Look, good news/bad news is that other than Trump, the Republicans actually have some serious candidates that would make good presidents and Chris Christie is making his case. He ran a very difficult state in New Jersey, people can make their own decisions whether he ran it well or not, but it is a state that is heavily unionized, very strong Democratic party there and Chris Christie was there. I don't think anybody could say he's not qualified for the job. Now, whether he's your favorite candidate or not is another matter. But I can't wait till DeSantis actually starts getting some national coverage because there's just widespread bashing of him at every turn. I've seen this before, everything he says is going to get twisted and it's going to run out of gas and when he finally gets out there, people are going to say, oh, he's not so bad. And what else about Ron DeSantis? He just won an election in Florida that required a lot of Democratic voters and he won by a very wide margin. Floridians seem to be pretty happy with what he's doing yet the punditry that never gets out of that New York-Washington corridor; they're pooh-poohing him. Oh, he's not charismatic; I'm okay with that because the guy we got now is charismatic? I mean, he's entertaining, but not that.
Brian Kruger
All right, we're moving on. Dylan Burgess wants you to answer the question "Who burns more books, the Republicans or the Democrats?"
Richard Helppie
Well, look, I always ask the second question. (Brian Kruger: Which is?) First of all, is a book indeed banned. If it is restricted based on age appropriateness then that's not a ban, that is being an adult around kids.
Brian Kruger
"50 Shades of Grey" shouldn't be in an elementary school library.
Richard Helppie
Yes, indeed. I mean, there were a great works that were opposed from the Left like "To Kill a Mockingbird," which is a very thoughtful, iconic American book that exposed the blatant racism in the South. I think that should be a must read or go see it on Broadway. But the Republicans have said, there are books that don't belong there. And I have asked, okay, what's the real thing? Are they "banning" books or "burning" books or are they saying this is an age-inappropriate book? I've seen more than one video where a parent steps to the microphone and starts reading out of a book that's available to middle schoolers and is cut off by the school board because it's pornographic; can't read that in public. Oh, can't read it in public, but my 13 year old can have access to it. I think it's much ado about nothing and it's one more scare tactic. Again, if we had better people in government, better people in media, they wouldn't resort to threats. They would try to inform people.
Brian Kruger
Okay, we're going to move on to Lloyd Davis. Lloyd Davis says a "Supreme Court just overturned affirmative action. Don't you think that colleges will find other ways to make sure they tip the scales?"
Richard Helppie
My own personal view is that for black Americans, and black Americans exclusively, that we needed EEO and we need affirmative action, because EEO wasn't doing it. We need to make it someone's job to go find black Americans, young men and young women, to give them these kinds of opportunities. They may not test as well and they may not have all the extra-curriculars but if they have the IQ and the ability to succeed at that next level of education or professional training, I think we need to make that formative. But I would draw the line right there in that, again, black Americans are the only group where it was legal to own them, where we had to fight a civil war over it, where we had to pass the Civil Rights Act during my lifetime. We need to recognize that, and maybe to a degree, women who also did not have full citizenship status, and stop. Every other group that came here, came here on their own volition and weren't dragged here because other tribes captured them and sent them off in slave ships. One hundred percent of [immigrants] came here and were subject to ridicule and faced difficulties in assimilating. Indeed, I just read a letter from a great aunt of mine, where my great grandfather, when he arrived in this country, only wanted to stay in his little town because they made fun of him for his accent and his attempt at English. That was the life of immigrants. It was why he had skills as a pharmacist in the homeland in Finland so he couldn't practice that trade, but he knew how to make shoes so that's what he did. That's the story of immigration. The other dilemma is that this notion of everybody that's got a different pigment in their skin is the same, is, I think, revealed as false. When you look at Asians, they are outperforming the mean, generally, in terms of college admission standards. A lot of the admissions rules are trying to limit Asians; which is discrimination of the worst kind. And then along that same line, somehow they've lumped together Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. Again, if you look at the history, and I've said this often, there's no love lost among those groups. Some white person someplace is saying they're all kind of the same [skin] tone so we're going to put them in a box over here. It's insane. People need to get off this. What was the question?
Brian Kruger
Let's just keep moving. Mesha Mainor said her last sentence in dumping the Democratic party was, "I will never apologize for being a black woman with a mind of my own." Do you want to reflect on that?
Richard Helppie
This is the woman in Georgia, if I'm not mistaken, who represents an area in Atlanta, in the Georgia State House. The hill that she said she would die on is going to be over school choice. She's not going to give into the political pressures if kids aren't getting an education. I think it speaks to politics, that this is a black woman who makes no bones about the difficulties she's had as a black woman in this society and says you're going to educate the kids versus give in to what she perceives as school boards and teachers unions that are unresponsive. Again, one of the issues that we have to deal with is that you don't hear names like when Winsome Sears or Mesha Mainor in the general dialogue because as soon as they step out of that compelled speech, they're kicked to the curb and yet they are black women who've done a lot; whatever race and gender that they might be, their resumes are things to envy.
Brian Kruger
You recently had Ryan Busse on the show. Do you want to talk a little bit about gun control? I know we've just covered it so you don't have to go into huge depth, but anything you want to say about that?
Richard Helppie
Well, I think those two episodes cover it pretty well, that we are making incremental change which is good. We're not doing enough, we need to get to graduated licensing like we've got with everything else. It's just all the political posturing. I think it's crazy that we have this so-called constitutional carry, no limitations, anybody can stick a gun in their pocket - nuts. Open carry, [there is] something wrong with you if you feel the need to carry around a semi-automatic rifle with 30 rounds in it. I mean, it's impractical. Equally, on the other side of the political front, California Governor Gavin Newsom said let's have a 28th amendment; it's never going to happen. He knows it's never going to happen. I mean, the Equal Rights Amendment has been proposed for one hundred years, the first time in 1923. He's not getting a constitutional amendment and he knows it but he's trying to posture in a run for presidency that will have nothing to do with the devastation in his own state and the exit of population. But that's politics today.
Brian Kruger
I'm sure. Lewis Cooper writes that he was happy that student debt was canceled, wanted to know what your thoughts were on a student debt cancellation getting overturned.
Richard Helppie
So this was only a down payment, like $10,000; it was not constitutional. This is, yet again, something right in front of us. The solution is real simple, who got the money? [It was] colleges, universities, trade schools, and the financial institutions through which these loans passed, period. They defrauded vulnerable consumers that were told you need to get this degree in order to have a good life, knowing full well they were saddling the person with debt that couldn't be overcome. Never mind all the people that took out the loans and never went to school or didn't finish school. The solution is real simple. A tax. The colleges and universities, hit their endowments, use that money to pay off the student debt and also refund anybody that's graduated in a relevant period - the last ten years, have managed to do it on their own or paid off their loans - refund them. Basically it puts everything back where it was and we move forward. When we move forward, we use student debt just like any other consumer debt, do you have the assets? Do they have the income, the ability to pay? What will happen if you do that is that the colleges, universities, trade schools will need to figure out a way to be efficient enough to deliver their product, ie. an education at a price point that their consumers - that's the students - can afford. (Brian Kruger: Seems simple to me.) It is. And here's the sad part. It's a lot easier for the, in this case, Democratic p to say we need to throw out the entire Supreme Court and get rid of that branch of government. That's just insane. Again, I come back to the structure question. The Right has done it too, make no mistake; when it's been a liberal court the Right was screaming about legislating from the bench.
Brian Kruger
We're getting down to the end here. We got something from Keith Burgess. Keith wanted to talk about Twitter and if you think that what Elon has done with Twitter has been okay, and now that it has an upstart on the other side, another monopoly and this time, it's Threads...it looks like Zuckerberg wants to do this...I don't know what to call it...it's going to be “kinder” out there. I don't know how he pulls that off but anyway, Keith Burgess wants to know if you're going to be on both. He knows you're on Twitter. What do you think about the differences and do you think that Elon Musk is doing it the right way?
Richard Helppie
Is Elon Musk doing it the right way? Well, I don't know. I think there's a great opportunity and I think he's made a lot of positive changes. We need a public square, alright, we need a town square but the notion that these mega platforms can be influenced by our government about what the truth is, is patently insane. It's the end of freedom, it is the end of democracy. I've seen editorials written trying to justify the outright censorship and this is right after we lived through COVID where the censorship was shutting down factual stories by highly qualified people because they didn't like the conclusions they were reaching. Mark Zuckerberg says he's going to have what he calls "a sane alternative" that will have consumers now going to be under the watchful eye of the meta censors. Zuckerberg, the same guy that allowed the current administration to censor what they were doing, that shut down the batch of New York Post stories leading up to the election, where - post election - people said had that been a story it would have changed how they voted. What I think I see happening - I don't like it - is I see splits. We have Twitter, which is more open - I know that my feed is more broad and not so left wing weighted - then you have Threads, which I've never been on, but they're basically promising hey, we'll give you the censoring that you used to get on Twitter. [Laughter] Come to us and we'll give you stat censoring. Then we have the Truth Social which I've never been on, the Trump product. So it's kind of like cable news, right? We're going to have this group of people censored here, this group of people censored here, and another group censored over there and people are going to have to pick which censor they want. Fact checking, that also got politicized. Again, I would encourage people that do actual research, that actually have original data, to make sure that their search engine optimization lets people get to their work. If it doesn't, they need to be raising holy hell at Google and other search engine companies to make sure that their work is getting presented in total. I mean, the information is out there, it takes a lot of work to get to it.
Brian Kruger
Down to the very last letter in our mailbag. It's from Bill Fisher. He said, "A long time ago I used to hear, 'it's the economy stupid.' What about the economy today?"
Richard Helppie
Well, the economy today is actually in pretty good shape at the consumer level. The big question is going to be this earning season; are people going to be accustomed to a higher multiple and buy more equities and fuel the stock market again or are they going to pull back and pick up the four and a half to five and a half percent they can get clipping coupons. But in the meantime people have used up their COVID money and they're going back to work. At the same time, you had people that couldn't spend their money because stores were closed and entertainment was closed and you couldn't travel so they had the money in their pocket and now they're going to go spend it. It's a lot like at the end of World War II when consumers with money in their pocket, unable to buy goods and services because of, in that case, rationing and societal lock downs, the economy booms afterwards. Add to that we flooded the market with so much money it's caused inflation, which won't go away. It also means people are feeling flush and maybe they better buy now because the prices are going to be higher in the future. Which is why...I have to admit I don't like to be as harsh on the president but he needs better advisors, because he said, oh, look at all the jobs I've added. It'd be like me bragging that I beat Jim Thorpe in a foot race; Jim Thorpe has been dead for a long time. So if you take an economy that was killed and then you let it revive, it better be able to do better.
Brian Kruger
There are a lot of victory laps being taken.
Richard Helppie
This notion that you'll be hearing is, hey, inflation is moderating. Yeah, inflation is moderating, but we still have high prices. It's the law of big numbers; when something costs ten dollars and you get ten percent inflation that's a dollar. Now it's down five percent; well five percent on that 11, a bigger number. It's the law of big numbers so we have persistently high prices. Now having said that, I like what the Fed is doing making the cost of money. I think we need to have interest rates and have some meaning for the value of that dollar and the value that lending. We need to be able to reward savers, which we haven't quite gotten to yet, but it's coming. I think that's ultimately going to be a stronger economy. But this notion that Biden's pulled off an economic miracle is, yeah, I just beat Jim Thorpe in a foot race.
Brian Kruger
So all right, any final thoughts for the viewers and the readers and listeners? But first of all, thank you guys for sending in stuff, it's great. A lot of it we couldn't actually read on the air and thanks for that, too. It's a free society. So any final thoughts for your audience? What's coming up with the next few episodes?
Richard Helppie
Very grateful for the following. I'm very grateful for the communication. It is a humbling job; I'm doing my best to be fresh and not give something that you can hear all over the place. I'm grateful for the guests that have come on and that have been candid and that share their experiences and their research and their points of view. I invite people to come on, particularly if you disagree with me, particularly if you disagree with some of our guests. We'd love to hear from you because free speech is not violence. It's not you're going to make me uncomfortable or make the other guests uncomfortable. It's okay, let's have the talk. Let's see if we can find the solution. That's not that hard to do if people aren't reacting to triggering words and exaggerating...violence is violence. I like the quote. I don't know who said it. Anybody that says speech is violence has never been punched in the nose, that's the difference. [Laughter]
Brian Kruger
Spoken like a guy who grew up in southeastern Michigan in the 60s and 70s right there. (Rich Helppie: Never mind.) [Laughter] Thanks for this Rich, it was great. Let's do it again some time.
Richard Helppie
All right, Brian. Sounds good. So long.
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