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Richard Helppie
Hello. Welcome to The Common Bridge. We've got a very popular guest back with us today, Robert Greenfield. This time he’s coming from down under in Australia, the world traveler, to let us know his perspectives and have a little chat about what's going on with the world. Robert, it is very good to see you. How have you been?
Robert Greenfield
Well, it's great to see you. Thanks also to Brian for putting this together today. I've been good. The whole world right now is waiting to see what's going to happen on November 5 and thereafter so I think there's lots to talk about today.
Richard Helppie
Absolutely. Look, on The Common Bridge we've been trying to reach out and try to gain some middle of the road where we can come together. We re-ran a show on using blockchains with a group called Votes, and they've been active again, saying, look, we could have better elections with absolute identity; I hope people listen to that. I said, look, we've struggled with what's the rule of law? So I go to Kosovo and guess what? They're building rule of law from a nearly intractable situation. I wrote a little column about JD Vance becoming the president after they run Trump off. Of course, we covered healthcare, which weirdly, is not a big part of the national conversation. It should be, because we need to talk about access, we need to talk about training of new doctors, and we need to talk about how well the insurance products are working or not, and maybe one day we'll have a healthcare financing system instead of methods. We've talked a lot about transgender youth, the assault on youth, and some of the legislation that's going on. And of course, we covered cyber security. Those are things that we're trying to find some middle ground on. But today, Robert, you sent me a number of things that you wanted to chat about so why don't you tee something up and let's go have a chat. I know that we're refraining from talking about Lions and Tigers and Wings.
Robert Greenfield
Hey, that's behind me [laughter]. And I do want to say something about that before we start. Honestly, I think Detroit gets a bad rap. Southeast Michigan gets a bad rap. I think that it's a great time. Detroit's coming back. The sports teams do make a difference. And the positive attitude in Detroit, I'm very proud of that as a person from Michigan who grew up there, left a while ago but I think it's a good time. I think it's a very good time, and it's very nice to see people happy about that. Sports brings things together and we - all three of us - are sports fans, so go Wings, go Tigers, go Lions. I don't know about the Pistons. We're going to cut them out.
Richard Helppie
Look, I think Detroit's a great story, actually. And as big of a sports fan as I am, it still pains me that taxpayer money is going into these stadiums, and then the average person has to pay to watch that again, on streaming services or on cable, and it's their tax money going in and they can't afford to take their family to a game. I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that. But you know the story of Detroit, which is Detroit is doing really very well right now. But it's not, oh, the federal government came in, it's been people doggedly trying to make progress. Years ago, Roger Penske, Dan Gilbert, working downtown, saying, what's the first thing we need to do? We're going to pick up the litter and provide security. And they did that. We had Zoe Kennedy on saying, you know what, out in the neighborhoods we're getting tired of the violence. We've had Chief Craig on to talk about what the Detroit Police Department has admirably done. Look, we're an automotive dependent economy - or we were almost exclusively - at a time when at the end of that run, as the Japanese car makers were coming into their own, there was a worldwide capacity for 80 million units, worldwide demand for 55 million units; something had to break. People love to kick on Detroit. But you know, a lot of those jobs didn't go very far. Robert, you know that, they went to Oakland County, they went to Macomb County. Those are adjacent counties. And then the other thing that I think is really a hallmark, is the bankruptcy. When Republican Governor Rick Snyder - extensive business background - and Democratic Mayor Mike Duggan - an excellent mayor, a guy I'd love to see be governor or president someday - forged a bankruptcy. Then Mayor Duggan has spent the money wisely; street lighting, police cars, working through the neighborhoods, getting stuff done, and doing it admirably. One of the things I love that he did - as places are asking for tax breaks for their factory - he says, great, we can do that. We can accommodate you. We can help with infrastructure with the proviso that residents of the city of Detroit get priority in hiring. That is good governance, and that's what gives me hope. Invite people to come to Detroit. It's awesome. I don't care if you're coming with a visiting team, just come.
Robert Greenfield
That was a good promo, Rich, well done.
Richard Helppie
I think that we did get a bad rap and we had issues but I think one of the things Detroit's benefited from is that we dealt with our issues, and we're finally figuring out we're not coming back, we're going forward. We're never going to be 1959 Detroit. We're going to be something even more awesome and it's happening every place.
Robert Greenfield
I think the key point here - if I could just interject - to me, is the private sector here is really what made it happen. People abandoned Detroit. You mentioned Oakland County, that's a great example, they took business out of Detroit. Detroit had a series of very poor mayors. They had a big violence problem; as you know, I do write about that, I'm sure you've spoken about that. But I think that Dan Gilbert and the Ilitch family in particular - you know a lot more detail about this than I do - they did not have to put the money in there. Dan Gilbert in particular did not have to, and he has, and he has been the catalyst with the Hudson's redevelopment. It's a beautiful building. He's compromised on a lot of things. It's not going to be the tallest building; he easily could have gone one hundred floors but he was respectful, and he puts all of his employees to work in Detroit. I think that sometimes when people look at the two sides - and you talk about the common bridge here - the left side is always like, we got to do more government things and the right side is, government's all bad. I think that people don't get it; that without the catalyst of the private sector actually investing and bringing in other investors - not just Gilbert, but as you mentioned a couple other people - that's what people don't get. People don't get that if you have the right people who are committed to to this type of concept it doesn't need a thousand people. It needs some, a few really big, good people who are committed. I say to this to people when they look at Detroit, it's about commitment, but it is also really about the private sector. Yes, Duggan's done a good job; Duggan could have done a great job but without that private sector money, I don't think it was going to go anywhere, don't you?
Richard Helppie
I think your point's well taken, but it takes a tremendous number of people. My good friend, Chris Allen, laboring to make each of the neighborhoods better, to provide healthcare, infrastructure, nutrition programs, and not letting the city become a backwater and just be one hundred percent on the private sector. And look, we can't leave out the Fords. They have made a nice thing out of the train station. Looking at that whole Michigan Avenue corridor, many, many hands have gone into making this a much better place. It's a woman named Cindy Paske, who's been doing business in Detroit for a long time, she never left. I don't know how she did it. Pete Carmanos with Compuware company, he brought his headquarters downtown when literally nobody wanted to do that. Lots of people to thank; Mayor Duggan's blight removal, parks, the city's looking good, the downtown's great. It's a blast down there right now. Where do you want to start today? How does the world see the US election?
Robert Greenfield
That's what I want to start with. I think that there are several factors here. First of all, I think everybody is just going about their business right now - if you just want to talk in general - but people are waiting. They are waiting to see what's going to happen. Of course, they're preparing right now. Joe Biden happens to be in Europe. He's got his new thing called the European Quad, which is the UK, France, Germany and the USA. So there are groups that are forming to try to figure out if, in particular, Trump comes back, what are they going to do? The biggest preparation for the world right now is if Trump comes back, what's that going to mean for them? If it's going to be Kamala Harris, they're talking about essentially a continuance of Biden. I don't think anybody feels that Kamala Harris is going to be anywhere near the statesman, and she obviously does not have the experience of Biden. Biden has his 50 years and knows everybody, so there will be some change. But I think that the way that the world is looking at the US - we can talk about the economy and other things like that - but the way that the world is looking at the US, it's all about the election right now, and they are watching very closely, I can tell you, Rich, from any country. I don't care if it's Germany...I watch the French news. I watch the UK news, I listen to the broadcast. I even check in on Hungary because of my wife's background. And obviously, here locally, almost every program either starts with the lead on the US election or something about the US election, or it has it at least as a big part of their news broadcast. So if you want to know what the world is thinking right now, they're thinking what's going to happen on November 5? I'm telling you, nobody's going to do anything until that happens. Nobody's going to make a move. China's waiting. Russia's waiting. Everybody's waiting to see what happens.
Richard Helppie
There's also that cleavage between the normal everyday people and the governments and the media ecosystem, and a lot of people, frankly, just aren't doing their job in those places. Again, just as we talked about Detroit, it was local people, private sector, public sector, and like Gil Scott-Heron said, the train from Washington, it's 100 years overdue, we've got to take care of things here. Robert, one time you and I were chatting, you were talking, I think it was about Hungary, and you were saying, there's a rightward tilt in Europe. Is it real, or it has the center moved, for example? Why, and will it continue?
Robert Greenfield
Obviously, since I live in Europe, this is a big subject for me. So to answer it, first of all, Victor Orban - who is a fanboy of Trump, and Trump's a fanboy of Victor, they seem to be borrowing from each other - has been a catalyst to move the entire European continent - which is 450 million people, another 120 million more than the United States so it's a small space with a lot of people - Victor has essentially moved the continent rightward. Now, what's the issue? The issue is the exact same issue, Rich, that it is in the United States and everywhere in the developing world, including here in Australia, and that's immigration. Immigration is the driver of what's going on in Europe in terms of the change, that's a big driver. Obviously the second part of that is the war. But the war in Ukraine with Russia is not really...that hasn't changed people's fundamental attitude. It's going to change their life. Because with Trump, if he comes back in, everybody gets it that they're going to have to put in more for defense. So what they call the peace dividend - which effectively since 1989 - is gone; 2022 basically meant that Europe is going to have to start paying its own way. And so all of these wonderful benefits that everybody hears about...I talk to people and I can see the health care systems there are becoming a little bit more frayed. I can see that obviously immigration has not worked the way that people want it to work, especially, let's say, non-Christian immigration has not worked very well. So the continent itself is moving to the right, and I think that their response is very similar to the US, which is, hey, what happened? What's going on? Why is my life changing? Except, Rich - and this is the key - they're not looking at the war very much. They're not looking at why it's going to cost them more as they become, frankly speaking, less productive. They are not efficient in Europe, there's a very strong leftward side of that, a lot of social benefits and a lot of tax. So you've got a situation in Europe which is, in my view, in the long run, it's going to drift right because it's unsustainable.
Richard Helppie
I think that the pendulum swings, and it would seem that the average person hasn't benefited from the Woke Left, that they need to try something else. Immigration, we've mishandled that, but if you look at the seeds of that, the immigration starts with birth rates; Japan, Europe, zero population growth. We're not going to have more children. But look what's happened in Middle East, Africa and such, that's where we're getting the young adults. Populations of humankind have immigrated since the beginning of time to move to more fertile ground or get on a navigable river. Today those populations now have to navigate political boundaries and the political boundaries aren't doing a great job of managing that. I've never met a person that said I don't want any immigrants, never, zero, and I talk to hundreds of people. But they're asking logical questions; can we pick who's coming? If we can't pick can we at least screen? And this is why I think in the United States there's a sense of anxiety, that 7.8 million people came in illegally under Biden and Harris and another four plus million came in quasi-legally, they found a loophole in the immigration law now they're in the country. Again, we need to be able to screen who's coming, I'd love to have all the hardworking, moral people we can get no matter what their skill set is.
Robert Greenfield
Obviously this is a very complex issue, but let's first of all look at it in a slightly broader sense, which is the cultural side. What Europe has got a problem with right now is the people are that are immigrating are not fitting in culturally. They are basically non-Christian, they are coming from war torn areas. When they get there it doesn't work very well. It's not to say that the majority are not hard working, but there are enough people who are not, who are figuring out there are a lot of benefits. And Europe is way more generous in their benefits than the United States is. The worldview is that in the US you show up legally or illegally, you've got to go to work. Getting in is a big issue in the United States and that's really been botched. I don't think anybody is going to disagree with that and everyone can make excuses. They can blame this guy, that guy, but it's not worked in the last four years. Yes, now it's down to a trickle, but that's not the point. In the US, when people come in, they've got to work generally; they talk a little bit about the housing stuff in the short run. In Europe, people get in and they don't have to work and that's a big difference. So Europe culturally has...again, I'm going back to this benefit scenario. The French have an ethos where, effectively, you come in and they expect you to do the right thing. Well, people aren't going to come in and do the right thing unless you make people do the right thing. That's what they found out. If you're saying to them why you can...I'll give you statistics, Rich, 38% of the people in public housing - which is many millions in France, it's not like a little public housing sector - 38% are non-French citizens, and the reason why they get into public housing is they don't make very much money. They are immigrants and once they're into public housing, they're like, wow, I can also get some money here and get some benefits. So the French have an issue. Each one of these 27 countries in the EU, every one of them - you mentioned Kosovo, which is not the EU - have different issues on immigration. You also mentioned, which is very critical, the demographic time bomb in every developed country in the world and one that China, which is not fully developed but getting there, they all have a demographic issue. So what do you do about demography mixing with immigration? You hit on it the right way which is this...I'm very much a Democrat, as you know, and I'm what I call a classic liberal. I am not woke, I am definitely not progressive. My view is everybody has to come in legally, everybody has to have a path forward, everybody has to work. I'm very much into that, and I'm not even very...I'm kind of iffy on what we call tailgate immigration, meaning I got in so I bring all: my mom, my grandma, and five other people. I don't believe that that's a very tenable thing in the long run either. So my view is, and the world's view is that at least when they get in America, people do go to work. And if you start moving from that, Rich, to go to work, well, they better work legally. They better put money into Social Security. They better put money into Medicare and everything else. Because if they're young, they're supposedly helping out on the demographics. We need people in the system. We need legal immigration and we need absolutely - in my view - they've got to go to work when they get into the country.
Richard Helppie
You and I are in agreement on this, there's a quantity of people that come in, and it's also the contour of the people that come in that you can get to work. Where we might differ is what you're calling tailgate immigration. To me, I think that is a natural thing. I mean, it's happened throughout history, there are lots of people, I'm sure you know, that said, yeah, my grandfather came or my great grandfather and landed in a place where there were other people from our home country, because they could get along there. Then once he got his job going he sent for my grandmother and children, and she told her brothers, there's work in America. We had that coming from the south into Detroit, that populated our auto plants. People came up from Appalachia and they established communities. That's where you and I grew up. I mean, you grew up in a little nicer place than I did, but it's a normal course. We managed it, people were expected to work and not create havoc. You mentioned NATO, and I've heard the fear mongering, oh, Trump's going to take us out of NATO, but your view from Europe says no, NATO members are going to pay their own way. Great. All right, I think that's a good thing. Can the war in Ukraine be won by anybody? I mean, is it a winnable war?
Robert Greenfield
Do we have time for war and peace here? [Laughter.] This discussion has been going on [inaudible.]
Richard Helppie
I'm going to put that down as a no then; it can't be won. Look, those political boundaries have shifted over time and populations of ethnic Russians are moving into places that are now in the Ukraine and vice versa. It's nutty, right? Why this war is going on is a mystery to me. Remember when it started? It was, oh, Russia's going to be done with this in 30 days. That was the common wisdom. Now look what's happened at unbelievable costs of human suffering and lots and lots of money.
Robert Greenfield
Obviously there's a mixed view on this too. You've got anybody that's...I mean, the polls...here are the two views on this in Europe; basically, this is not about Ukraine. This is about they are fearful of a reconstituting of the Russian Empire. That's what they're worried about. People are not...yes, they have some sympathy for the Ukrainian people but the bottom line is the Baltics all line up, and Putin has said they have no legitimate reason for being there: Moldova, Georgia, those two places. Basically, what people are saying is they need to stop Putin. There are some countries, such as Poland, who want their own nuclear bomb. Because what Poland's looking at is one step into Poland by Russian troops, they're going to nuke them, okay. They're not doing this. My country disappeared in 1796 and we didn't get to be a country again till 1914, then Germany ran over us, and Russia ran over us and then we were under the Soviets. They're like, no, no, no. There are some hard line...the Poles, in fact, are the most hard line. But you've also got Norway, they're serious now, the Swedes are no longer neutral on this kind of question. So it's really about Putin and it's about the Russian Empire. To the Europeans it's not about how much territory Zelensky gets to keep or if a piece goes off to Russia, they don't really care, I have to tell you. I'd like to say they're all united in saying, go Ukraine, “slava Ukraini,” but the reality is they want Putin stopped because they are scared. Those front-line states...Romania, throw them in there, throw in Bulgaria, they're all sitting there going like, man, if he takes Ukraine, they're right at our border, and he already owns Belarus. So if you start looking at all those little pieces, the fear is really about Putin. Even if Putin goes, the real fear is that the Russian people are aggressive. They are viewed as aggressive. They are viewed as they've never had a democratic government. They've never understood any kind of boundaries. They've always had a czar or a Soviet person in charge of them so they don't know anything about voting, real voting. They don't know anything about participation and they have a big demographic time bomb. The Russian populace is going down.
Richard Helppie
But they did have resistors to their draft, and young men fleeing so there is public opinion in there. We also know that the Russians, even at the height of the Soviet Union, they could be controlled and reasoned with. Of course, Urho Kekkonen, as a president of Finland for 25 years, could go to Russia and drink the Russians under the table - which takes a lot if you've ever been drinking with Russians; I've seen some amazing consumption that would impress any of us from blue collar Detroit - but Russia never attacked Finland during that time, and Finland's very happy now to be a part of NATO because they don't want that. You sent me some notes here. You said, well, what's holding up the Australian economy? And I've said, like, I don't know, what is holding up Australian economy? How is the economy doing down there? Shifting gears quickly...
Robert Greenfield
I just want to make one point though, for your audience, about NATO. I don't think that Trump will pull the US out of NATO right now. From Trump pushing and then Biden carrying through, 23 of the countries that are in NATO are now meeting their obligation. Again, it's not about NATO at the end of the day. What it is about is Russia. I think everybody should try to understand that it's not about Trump's feeling about whether he likes anybody - which he doesn't - in Europe, it's much more about what happens with Russia; Putin and Trump, frankly speaking. So those are the vectors moving forward. If Trump wins, I think what you're going to see is Europe is going to have a way of putting some kind of stop to Russia. But they don't have the capability, between you and I, I just want you to know that it's really critical for Americans to know that the Europeans have no way that they can stop Russia right now. The US has the technology. The US has the bases, the US has the satellites, they know everything that's going on everywhere. So without the US as a strong partner, Europe has got a lot to be fearful of, in addition to this problem of their economies.
Richard Helppie
Robert, to that point too, is Trump saying, look, you've got to pay your bills. The guy's a landlord, very simple, look, pay your bills or we're evicting, or we're leaving. I don't think Trump is going to do anything about pulling out of NATO and all the fear mongering around Article 5 and such. He's not going to do that but I think that you are going to see the Europeans step up a little bit. So what is holding up the Australian economy? What do we know about that?
Robert Greenfield
This is a fascinating thing. I've looked into this a lot. Australia is doing quite well and the reason why they're doing quite well is that they've repaired their relationship with China a bit. The economy is held up by mining. This is what happens, when people look at Australia - medium sized economy, big location - about 1/3 of the federal tax revenues that they collect is essentially coming from digging iron ore, gold, and every other thing out of this very ancient continent. What does that mean? It means that Australia, when people look at it and say, wow, the Australians get paid more than the Americans, the Australians have the best minimum wage in the world, which is all true. But how can they afford to be able to do that when they have almost no manufacturing; we're pulling coffees here, and tourism. The reason why is Australia is a resource economy, but it's not corrupt unlike, let's say, in Africa, where they pull out resources and the rich guys put it in their pockets; Russians come in or whoever it is. That doesn't happen here. Money goes straight to the federal coffers. There are no state taxes so money gets distributed basically according to need. Australia (Richard Helppie: Like Norway, with the oil.) Exactly, the Norwegians, as you know, they all get that dividend.
Richard Helppie
How do you think the Australian miners would do against the American environmentalists?
Robert Greenfield
Well, they have their own issue here. They're called the indigenous people. It kind of takes the place of the environmentalists, which is they don't get...but that's more of a cultural thing. I think that the Aussies would have a tough time with US environmentalists. They have a similar thing here with...but it's very remote, Rich. You go out to these places, they are open pit mines that are kilometers across and a couple kilometers deep. They are gigantic operations. I think the average Australian wants to just sit back and not hear about it. This is what I think is the strange thing, urban centers in the United States, urban centers here and a few other places, they want all the benefits of the resource economy but they don't necessarily want to hear about it. Everybody wants that tax revenue. Everybody wants to be able to say that we're exporting here, exporting there. It's like soybeans or whatever it is, at the end of the day Australia is an export driven economy, and I think the parallels to the US are quite similar, except with the small population these people here really can live a great lifestyle. That's really what it comes down to. The whole market is propped up by resources and agricultural exports.
Richard Helppie
Apparently, they have a tolerance that probably Americans wouldn't put up with. You had a great episode with us a couple years back, about your experience of being basically confined by the Australian military for the offense of returning to your own country legally, which I thought was interesting. The US economy, we all know liquidity was dumped into the economy, the so-called Inflation Reduction Act was jet fuel for inflation. Money had to go someplace. It went into asset prices. So we've got a roaring stock market, and we have real estate prices and the commercial sector not collapsing, which is a miracle. We have the residential real estate continuing to get out of reach of people. What's the view of the American economy from around the world?
Robert Greenfield
Well, I put this in three parts; Trump comes in and he does his tax cut, and things didn't move for a while, then they started to move in the right direction. As covid approached, the Trump approach to the market was beginning to work. It took a while, but it was beginning to work. Also that went into stock buybacks and different things like that. So that's part one. Then covid hits, that changed everything in the US, in my view. From the beginning of covid until Biden comes in, it was a very crazy moment and money was also dumped in the economy. Biden comes in and in my view, and way the world views it, Biden was a targeted guy. So yes, the Inflation Reduction Act went to some families, people, whatever, but all the investments, everybody agrees, were long overdue, such as bridges, roads, all that kind of stuff. Biden then went on and did his climate thing, which was...
Richard Helppie
Robert, weren't the bridges and things in the American Recovery Act? If you look at the economists, [they were] near unanimous that the spending during covid that Trump initiated, we needed to do that. It was done in a fairly smart way, because we relieved the consumer. Of course, it was done sloppily. Then people got money that shouldn't have had it, but it basically went to where the pain was. Then Biden's first round they said, maybe, maybe not, but yeah, if we get some benefit out of it, that'll work. And then came the Inflation Reduction Act, which almost universally said, I don't know what's going on here. We really can't pay for this and it's kind of a Democratic wish list that has just put untold pain on your average American. Those are the three big slugs of liquidity that have gone into the market. I don't know how we're going to resolve this at all.
Robert Greenfield
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I look in the total...okay, here's the way the world looks at it, not my view. The world looks at it that they wish that they had had somebody like Biden who came in and effectively has reinvested in the economy. That's how the world looks at it. And that recession was avoided and yes, there was inflation, but everybody had inflation. That was the way that world looks at it, that a lot of it was supply chain. The way the world looks at the way the US now, is the US economy has been the envy of the world, in particular, for the last two years. So everybody else - China's trying to pump money in belatedly - everybody else... some people, like the UK, have no money, okay, France has no money. Germany is trying to figure out what to do. They look at the US as a, relatively speaking, cowboy approach compared to their approaches, as a very solid economy, a global engine. Every economist outside the United States, even some of the naysayers like Larry Summers in the US, who did say exactly what you said, Summers said however, it's worked out. It's worked out pretty good for the US at this point.
Richard Helppie
The point I'm making is this. You have this cleavage between the policy wonks in Washington and you have their handmaidens in the corporate media. Why are people not liking the US economy: medical care wait times, gallon of gas in 2020 in April, $1.84 now $3.21, rent per square foot - residential rent - is up 39.5 percent since 2020. So from 15.21 from 11.85 wages are basically flat. April of 24 $11.21 four years ago, it was higher at $11.74 so people are in distress. Gasoline, eggs, a dozen eggs, $1.48 in 2020 and $3.20 today so when people can't fuel their cars, put a roof over their head, put groceries on the table, and then you tell them, hey, the economy's working, they're looking at you like, what are you talking about? That's where we're at here. Again, at the end of Trump, pre-covid, wages were recovering, and particularly at the lower incomes, and we got all that reversed out with the spending. I mean, the data's right there, and we're harming, frankly, Robert, the people you and I grew up with that are just trying to live a decent life and make a living.
Robert Greenfield
Obviously, statistics can be chosen at any time. I did look at the gas prices. I'll just talk gas prices. I looked at it two days ago. I decided to spend some time on it. May 2019 it was $2.96 per gallon average in the US. You're talking about a year later, that was when oil actually was selling at a negative price because nobody was driving because the country was shut down due to covid. So it depends on when you want to compare anything. Today in Texas, gas is at $2.78 the national price is around $3 a gallon. If you look at May 2019, which is five years ago, more than five years ago, today, there's not any appreciable difference in terms of gas. On top of that - and this is the critical part - as much as everybody wants to criticize Biden for a lot of things, he has drilled, he has fracked, and the US has got 30% more production today than any other country in the world. You can also say, well, the Saudis are holding back or you can say whatever you want to, or Russia is off the market, but they're not off the market, they're selling to Africa. They're selling to other places like that. The bottom line is, the US, on a net basis, is the strongest economy, and a lot of it has to do with - I don't want to say there's more leases, less leases, reality is reality - the US is drilling, the US is producing. The US saved Europe with their LNG, their natural gas, when Nord Stream was cut off. A lot of things that the US has done in the last four years has really worked. If you want to talk about the price of eggs, we can talk about avian flu, but yes, there has been inflation, there's no doubt, but at the end of the day, to characterize the US economy as a weak economy, nobody sees that, except, to be honest, some Americans.
Richard Helppie
I think we agree on that, that Americans that are trying to make a living, raise a family, yeah, they have a problem. You wrote to me earlier about Donald Trump is focused on immigration and can't stop being angry and will it work? Look, I can't defend the guy, right? He needs to behave better. I don't think he can. Debbie Dingell, though, who is a Democrat and who represents my district, she said he's passionate. I'm like, okay, is he angry? Is he passionate? I guess, depends on what lens you're looking through. I think Debbie Dingell is a pretty reasonable person. She's going to win our district, and I'm going to vote for her. I don't like everything she does, but I think she's a decent Democrat. Why is it that you've got the view that Trump's focused on immigration only?
Robert Greenfield
Well, you know, I'm not there, but from watching him, listening to his speeches constantly, Trump is very comfortable, in my view, speaking about immigration. When he came down the golden escalator, he talked about it then, he's talked about it constantly. He's never stopped talking about immigration. I think he also feels it's a winning issue. His backers, his folks that are on his team, they feel that's a winning issue and so he likes talking about it. I think that it has been made a core issue. And why does that work for him? I think that the people...you go back to the folks that you say that were worried about inflation, there are a lot of people on that, let's call it the white working class demographic, who feel at risk, and they they do not know what their future is. And I think...
Richard Helppie
I'm sure you're familiar with the current statistics. It's white, black, and Hispanic working class folks that are saying, hey, we're getting the short end of this. We don't dislike immigrants coming from elsewhere. But look, the Biden/Harris administration let in about 12 million people who got relocated into places that couldn't support them, like Martha's Vineyard, for example, and so they had the National Guard come in and move them out within two days. But other communities aren't getting the support, and so we're doing immigration in absolutely the worst way possible. I know many immigrants, I've met them, talked to them. Basically, they're just like every other immigrant group; by and large, they want to come here and work, raise a family, own a home, have a yard and have a better future. God bless them, I hope that we can have that kind of country for them. But to subject them to what we have done, I think it's immoral and it's cruel, and just dumping them onto other communities I think is a recipe for disaster. Is it a winning political issue? Yeah, probably.
Robert Greenfield
Well, first of all, I agree with the last part, I don't think people should walk back from the record, good, bad or indifferent. I think that Biden should have taken some hit for at least part of the inflation, he didn't explain it very well at all. Even though things have worked out, I think definitely they should take a hit for what they had done, at least on immigration, for some period of time. The US, in my view, has obviously - we're saying the same thing here - but on the point on Trump, I think that is the key. This is the issue that Trump feels most comfortable with. I'm repeating that, which means that he's going out to get people to vote for him and that's really the question here. We can talk about immigration as how we believe in that. We can talk about all the countries that have issues. I've been to Africa since we last spoke. I've been in several African countries. I talk to them about the Russians coming in, the Chinese coming in. There are corrupt regimes, there are a lot of things that are going on around the world. Maduro, down in Venezuela, a quarter of the population has left. So there are a lot of things that are happening in the world. The point that I was making is, I believe that Trump, if he wins this election, he is trying to win it on two factors. One, in my view - and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you're there - one is what I call the "bro vote”. He's really pushing for the male votes. I don't care if there is...whatever race, he's definitely going for that, in my view. And the other thing is, he's pushing the immigration side. He's not pushing or does he really understand women's issues? He flip-flops all over with those things but I don't think that's important to him. I think - and again, I'm asking you in this case - I think he wants to win, or believes he's going to win like he always has, with immigration and men.
Richard Helppie
Well, I think that you've kind of morphed into another topic, and that's this dysfunctional established media ecosystem that presents it that way, and the talking points get pushed out there. Under Trump, with his appointees to the Supreme Court, Roe vs Wade was reversed. People forget, well, it was a different Supreme Court that established Roe vs Wade, and they also forget that Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she didn't agree with the Roe decision in the first place. She thought it was the wrong case and basically predicted the day that it would become undone and that one goes to the states. I love what happened in Kansas, you know, that heart of the country, most conservative, and they're like, no, we're not going to wipe this out. There is a general consensus, but it's not the only issue. I think the far greater issue is the Biden administration attempting to undermine Title IX. Now, I have many sisters, and the oldest and the youngest are ten years apart. They were the two best athletes in the group, and when my oldest sister went through high school, there was no competitive girls swimming team. She couldn't play tennis or softball or volleyball or anything else, and she could hit the crap out of a softball too. By the time my youngest sister got there, there was a varsity tennis program, she was the number one singles, and she got to play lots of softball and such. And the job opportunities that were there because of Title IV and because women deserve that. Biden comes along and says, no, we're just not going to do that anymore, and now you've got men in women's spaces. I just venture, Robert, that there are a lot more girls that want to play basketball than that think they're going to want an abortion. And I'd like to see some consistency on this out of our political system.
Robert Greenfield
Well, hey, Caitlin Clark, I guess her name is, she's definitely shown that women like basketball.
Richard Helppie
And by the way, those women that are playing in that league are the beneficiaries of Title IX because they got the opportunity. The money had to be spent for their training facilities, for their scholarships, all the expenses that go into having a sport like basketball, the coaches, the athletic trainers. All of that to say that we're going to let a guy come in there and declare that he's a woman, is nonsense. But that's what the Biden administration did. Nobody's calling them to account for it and saying, does this make sense? When you say Trump's just going for the bro vote, I think Trump's got a much broader appeal, and you can see that in what the Harris campaign is doing right now. Now, one of the things you wrote earlier was, could Harris come up with an excitement? As you know, I wrote a column called "Kamala Harris for President" before Biden dropped out. That initial surge, I think, was relief that it wasn't going to be Biden and Trump like, oh, thank God, we have another place to go. Then it morphed into trying to create an avatar that didn't look like anything like the last Kamala Harris. Then they hid the candidate, and then they tried to ride Roe vs Wade. Basically, all it did is it gave the Republicans a chance to say, hey, excuse me, what about the censorship and the wars and the inflation and the broken border and how did you get on the ticket? Was it democracy or was it something else? That's why I think you've seen the race tighten up. That's my 58 cents on that. I don't know how you guys see it from over there.
Robert Greenfield
Okay, well, actually, to be honest with you, I don't think people know much about Kamala Harris. I'll just cut to the chase. She's not Trump to the rest of the world, which is afraid of Trump, so they don't know her, just like you just said, on the other other side. She's not a known commodity. It's not like Biden or any of the previous folks. She's just literally not very well known. In terms of...
Richard Helppie
She should have rode that. Actually, in my column, I said that's what she should do, humility, saying, look, you don't know me, but I'm going to be everybody's president, and I'm not Donald Trump. I may not be your perfect candidate. I'm not Donald Trump. And why don't people know her? Because she wasn't in the primaries. Why wasn't she in the primaries? Because people were trying to pretend that Joe Biden was cognitively clear. And where is our media in this? The question she needs to be asked - and I've said this on other episodes - is, when did you know Joe Biden was not cognitively effective? How would you answer that question, if you were her?
Robert Greenfield
I don't know. I'm not her, but I do know this, that...
Richard Helppie
What would a possible answer be? I mean, nobody cares what you and I are saying anyway, so like, [laughter] just for grins, I mean, we're having a smoke at a club and having a cocktail, and we just...what would you say if you were Kamala Harris and someone asked when did you know Joe Biden was cognitively impaired?
Robert Greenfield
I'll give you the global answer, then I'll give you my answer. The global answer is they feel that Biden has a very strong team, which means that...I'll give you an example, Lloyd Austin. He, as you know, in the Woodward book, had a confrontation with the defense minister of Russia. They were going back and forth, and the defense minister of Russia said, don't threaten me, and Lloyd Austin said, I don't threaten people, I have the greatest and most powerful military in the history of the world. So I think that the answer, and the reason why I use that as an example, is that each one of Biden's key guys - not all were good, by the way, not Homeland Security; the woman who was in charge of the Secret Service, she was a loser - he has a lot of very, very solid people, particularly on the international side. Gina Raimondo is very, very good. She's done some really good trade deals. So most people look at, well, maybe Biden had lost a step, but he has a great team, number one. Number two is to answer your question again. I don't want to talk about what Woodward wrote, but if you want to believe Bob Woodward, Biden, behind the scenes, is still a tough, curmudgeonly guy. So I think that from Kamala Harris, asking her when did she think that he was cognitively declined to the point where she should have said something, I don't think she was really...I don't want to say...either capable, or not in the position to essentially try to do anything. What is she going to do? You know, do the 25th amendment? What is she going to do? I think at the end of the day, if, when she answered on “The View” the other day about what she would do differently? She said, I can't think of a thing. It's basically because the Biden agenda with his lieutenants was, in her view, working. And she doesn't have another context. She wasn't with five other administrations like Biden. She didn't put legislation forward over 50 years. She's a relatively unknown person who came out of California, as you said, a Woke Left. She gets one term in the Senate, and again, like Obama, now she's all of a sudden the Democratic candidate. The Democrats, if you really want me to talk...
Richard Helppie
But what we're talking about, though, is this; we all saw Joe Biden wasn't cognitively functioning. Whether Bob Woodward says he is or not, and whether or not they get him up from his nap, people that are in decline, they're not in decline 24/7, right? They do have good periods in the day. They have good days. They have bad days and so on. But clearly he had the nomination. He clearly dropped out because he couldn't function. So either - I don't want to answer the question for you - Kamala Harris covered it up. The notion that we have a good team, anybody that's ever run an enterprise knows that, like Harry Truman said, the buck stops here. I know I personally conducted lots of meetings where I had a cabinet; could be four people, it could be 24 people, and at the end of the day, it's like, okay, I've got your input, thank you very much, this is what we're going to do. We don't have that. If we extrapolated it, you're almost making an argument; well, hey, there is a deep state that's running things, and it doesn't matter who the president is, because we got all these great guys back there.
Robert Greenfield
The answer to that is, if you look around the world, there are strong men who are top down people. But most governments - you can ask the question here in this country, I do ask the question - what do people think of the prime minister here? Guess what? 90% of the people don't think anything of them, because the place is running on autopilot. So most places that have good, functioning democracies, they run without having a lot of drama. I mean, that's kind of normal.
Richard Helppie
Would that be awesome to have that in the United States, like no political drama because people right now are exhausted on the idea of another Trump. And by the way, if Trump is re-elected, he's not going to serve four years there. There's about zero chance of that. I think that what Vice President Vance would be compelled to do would be to pick a middle of the road like an Andy Beshear or a Nikki Haley, or a person that's in the middle, or a Democrat turned independent like Tulsi Gabbard or...I don't know about RFK.
Robert Greenfield
Not Tulsi, please.
Richard Helppie
She's solid. But anyway, Robert, you know quite a bit about the Middle East. You said, why is Netanyahu attacking everyone? I'm like, I don't know. It seems like Putin, he wants a security zone, but I know that can't be the answer. What's your take on this?
Robert Greenfield
It's a 2000 year old story, as you know, right? I think that the State of Israel was formed essentially to be the homeland, but also to be a security zone for the Jews in the world. Okay, everybody gets that. Since 1948 there has been constant pressure on Israel, and I call them Israel's tormentors. They did not include Iran, obviously, until 1979 when the Shah was thrown out and the ayatollahs came in. So what's happened in the Middle East in the dynamic is that, over time, Iran has become the backer of all of these factions; Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, whoever it is. Netanyahu was sitting there. He was the guy who helped create the problem in Gaza by secretly funding them through Hamas, through Qatar. But what's happened is, this is the moment that Netanyahu has been waiting for and it's kind of like one of those moments...it's an existential moment for the Jewish people in Israel - not globally, but in Israel - you don't see people out in the streets right now saying, don't bomb Hezbollah. You saw them saying, don't bomb Gaza, because we had the hostages. But the hostages are no longer really important. That's gone by the by. This is Israel striking back at its tormentors. When you hear enough of those people saying “from the river to the sea,” Netanyahu says, yeah, I get it: river to the sea, I'm going to push you into the sea, I'm going to push you back to Lebanon, I'm going to push you over this way. He's going to push everybody; and Egypt, down at the bottom, saying, don't push us. Just leave us alone. In Iran, if you read the tea leaves at all, everybody is shocked at how powerful the Israeli apparatus is, for their secret service, and all the Mossad, everybody else. And what is the US response? It's very interesting. Biden has gone silent. Biden gave them the THAD system, which is to knock down the ballistic missiles. So everybody gets it that, okay, Netanyahu is playing his “I'm gonna get our tormentors now,” before this election is over. If Kamala Harris wins, she's definitely going to do something for the Palestinians. If Trump wins, it's business as usual. But Trump is about business, Trump is not about more death and destruction in the Middle East. He'll tell Bibi, slow it down, do a deal with the Saudis. Let's go back to the Abraham Accords, and everyone's going to get along together. Let's talk about Kuwait and the emirs and all of those kinds of guys. I think that Netanyahu says this is my moment, and I don't think I'm wrong, because that there's no people in the streets in Israel...you're going to see here strategic destruction until it's settled between Harris and Trump, but in between, and maybe even for a while thereafter, what you're going to see is Bibi is not going to stop, and the Israeli people are not going to push him out.
Richard Helppie
Robert, I really appreciate that insight. You're so well versed in this. The thing that I find curious is that we have the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, autographing a missile that's going to Israel at Hamas. The optics on that was horrifying. I see the glorification of our manufacturer of weapons. We heard talking heads on the corporate media saying, well, I don't know why the Republicans don't like this bill, those missiles are going to be built in America; talking about Ukraine and also Israel. Joe Biden came out and said, yeah, it's going to be good for the economy that we're going to have missiles to shoot. And I'm thinking that's the sound of a country that's lost its moral center. Do you know how many hospital beds could be built for the cost of one missile? We're celebrating that we go into debt to give money to an international ally - let's just stipulate that be allies - so that they can turn around and buy missiles from us that are going to blow up. Meanwhile, we impoverish the country. I mean, does that make any sense at all to anyone?
Robert Greenfield
Well, listen, you and my wife are in perfect accord, because whenever I say any of that stuff that I just said, she barks right back at me exactly what you said. What I'm trying to say is, of course not. I think the US has lost its moral center. There is no moral center right now internationally, there's none whatsoever. What this is about is, you're back to Bismarck's real politic. This is a strength kind of thing. This is a moment when there is no morality right now. Nobody's talking about hospitals, nobody's talking about rebuilding. You can barely get food into Gaza. It's obviously horrific. The morality on this thing is so off the scale, so off the charts. All I was talking about was something slightly different, which is, what is he doing and why? I'll give you this perfect example. I talked to a couple of Israelis here, and I said to them, how do you feel about what happened with Hamas? And they said, I felt like I was being raped. These are two women. They said they felt they were being raped. So the Israeli people, have got this deep, deep feeling of, our backs are against the wall. That's all I was trying to say; I wasn't trying to put any moral aside to it, because I don't think...right now, the sides are so far apart, so far apart, that the way that Israeli people look at it, and the way that the Palestinian and so many other people look at it, are so different. All I'm saying is that it's going to be a long time before the dust settles, one. And then number two, I'm not sure what's going to be there after, but I do want to put this key point here, outside the morality, and that is Iran. Iran is scared as hell, Rich. They are really frightened. The deal that's been made between Biden and Israel is they won't bomb the oil fields and they won't bomb the cities or the nuclear. They can bomb everything else, in other words, Israel can take out all of the military bases of Iran, the production facilities for the drones, all of that kind of stuff. So this is almost like one of those moments where the US, it is really more than just complicit. The US has cleared out the Gulf of Hormuz so if Iran wants to try to block it, who gives a damn? The US is drilling oil so right now Iran has zero leverage, that is the point that I'm trying to get across here. The morality will come later, unfortunately. And all the Palestinians and queers for Palestine and all the wacky doodle things that you see, nobody cares.
Richard Helppie
The people that I think care are your average citizens. On October 7, a year ago, there was some of the most horrible planned atrocities. I was reading some accounts of some people that saw the footage, and they gave their resumes about all the horrors they had seen around the world and this was by far the worst. You know that there are Palestinians that are dying. You can have your view on why that's occurring, but my sense is this, Robert, that the people that are just living there; the Palestinians, they don't want to kill the Israelis, and Israelis don't want to kill your average Palestinian. People just want to live. These things are being fought by governments and by factions that are not responsive to the vast population. That's one of the things that does concern me about our country, is that a lot of what the Democrats and the Republicans fight about really doesn't affect or really doesn't help your average person. And we've lost the fourth estate holding them accountable. I will say this that, look, you know when you pick up the New York Times what you're going to get. You saw CBS News inserting a new answer to make Kamala Harris sound cogent. It's Soviet style propaganda. It's what you've got from all sides, and that's different than what we've had historically, where you've had publications from the far left to the far right, and yet we managed to muddle our way through what needs to be done. To me, I think, that is what our mission is on The Common Bridge; can we get together and talk about what we should do? And I bet, if you went to the average Iranian and said, do you think we should wipe Israel off the map at the cost of risking us getting wiped off the mat, they would probably go, you know, I don't think so. Like live and let live. Let's trade with them. Let's sell them oil. They sell us olives. I don't care. And yet, we have these governments that are now running independent of the populations they're supposed to serve, and we don't have an honest media system holding them to account.
Robert Greenfield
Let me just say about the media system holding to account the media. I agree on both sides. Nobody holds anybody to account. You could throw Fox in there, or anybody else. There was an interview, Bloomberg interview, with Trump just two days ago on tariffs. The guy tried to make a couple of points and Trump just talked over him, and the guy just gave up. The media is not well prepared. I feel like they are pedantic. They are elitist. They are definitely not understanding the average person. I listen to enough of the media when they have their off moments; they're chit chatting with each other about what their weekends are. They're not committed to their craft. Now, there are people out in the field. I watch some of the guys that are in the war zones. I really, really admire them. They are trying to uncover everything that you talk about. God bless them. They've lost their lives. It's just extraordinary. Those people are committed. They don't want to go back to Washington or London or any of those kind of places. They're out there and they're wonderful people but there's not enough of that. In the pundit class, in the analyst class, it is very predictable. All the sides are predictable. You don't learn very much. I'm just kind of saddened by it all the time. I think that how much time do people have, Rich? They don't have, like, four or five hours a day to go through eight or nine sites and try to figure this, that, and the other thing out in order to get to a core thing. I will even say this, I've got 25,000 followers. I've got five to eight million views a month. When I go middle of the road my readers are not happy. They are not happy with me unless I'm taking a strong anti-Trump stance. Two days ago, when I wrote about how the Democrats had lost touch with the working class, I was blasted by a lot of people who are big supporters of mine. The polarization is real. I had to go back and say, I'm sorry, man, this is the real world and I did the chapter and verse. Moving forward, it's not always people voting against themselves. The Democrats have gone elitist in many ways. The Democrats were part of the problem of the globalists. Sure, the Republicans took all the money and they outsourced to China, but you didn't see Clinton stopping it. You didn't really see...well, Obama, by the time he got there, it was over. But the point here is that, no, the media does not hold people to account with the exception of the people in the field doing that tough work. It's pretty pathetic.
Richard Helppie
I really appreciate what you said about the front-line people, that there are people out there trying to do the right thing, and that there are editors. What I would encourage people to do, get the Substack app. Get a Substack account. It’s free. There are lots of great writers out there, people that are actually doing journalism. Bari Weiss, Sasha Stone, Matt Taibbi, Chris Bray – we just had a show with him. He has a Substack called "Tell Me How This Ends" - Gerald Posner, there are many others that are actually out there doing reporting that's direct to consumer journalism versus we have to pass something through to get folks riled up. And as I've said oftentimes, this episode, every episode I do, my right wing friends go like, you're the soft left guy, whatever. And I have all my my left wing friends saying you're in the tank for Trump. And it's like, okay, never voted for him, never sent him one dollar, except this time I am going to vote for him. It's the only thing you can do to show your displeasure with the lawfare and the censorship and the like. We're going to end up with a crappy president this time no matter how it turns out. I just hope people behave themselves. Robert, let's end on a happier note. You suggested this and I've been roiling it around in my head, but do you think the Lions can win the Super Bowl?
Robert Greenfield
I have to tell you that in my lifetime and in yours, I mean, obviously the Lions have not won a championship since 1957. They haven't been in the playoffs since the '90s or thereabouts, or won a playoff game since the '90s. Here's what I like about the Lions, and I definitely want to mention the Tigers, just if I could for a moment. The coach, I think that everything starts with the coach. I think that where the NBA has gone wrong is it's not about the coach, it's about the players and that's wrong. I think that their coaches, good coaches, are incredibly important. Our coach, Campbell, he is just...the guy is not just a true believer, he's out there, he's actually got people fired up. He's gotten people that are...I don't know how good they are, but they have become, like, 150% type of guys. But before we switch off of that, I don't know if they're going to win, and I think Aiden Hutchinson is an amazing guy, and they lost him. But I do want to put this in, the most amazing person is AJ Hinch. This guy is the first person who had the guts, the cojones, to have seven pitchers in a game. He does not let his players run him. He has gotten everybody to buy in on that team. I can't tell you if there will ever be anybody that's even going to make a second team All Star, besides Tarik Skubal, the great pitcher that he is. Again, both of those are about two coaches who said, I want you guys to buy in. I want you guys to trust me. I'm going to sit here. I'm using analytics, everything that I can, and I'm going to do this. It doesn't matter if they say all the great thing about the fans, but the truth is, these two teams have shown that a band of brothers and lack of ego, people can do great things.
Richard Helppie
With a strong leader at the top, to break ties and take things on, which is why I think we need to have a president, because I've never seen anything run without somebody at the top of the food chain that ultimately...
Robert Greenfield
[Laughter] You won that exchange. You won that one.
Richard Helppie
We're not playing for points or anything but, you know, and look, the last time the Lions won a championship, I was wearing diapers. I only had a couple teeth, and I'm just hoping to be not in the same condition the next time they win, but it's possible [chuckling] and they were 30 minutes away from getting to the Super Bowl for their first time. And they thought they didn't have to play a second half against the San Francisco 49ers, which I'm not sure how that was supposed to work out. But the 49ers kind of laid down the law, so we shall see. But it's fun, and I hope that my audience doesn't mind us talking about our love for sports and the city of Detroit and state of Michigan and our country. Robert, I know that you do love this country and that you care about people and it shows in how articulate you are. I'm honored to have you on my show and count you as a friend.
Robert Greenfield
Well, I want to say this Rich, every time I look forward to this, it's wonderful to be able to speak to you. I really wish that there would be more people like you. In fact, you're the only person on the right side that makes me feel a little bit like I'm too far on the right. You articulate a lot of positions that, especially humanitarian positions, I think you really do a great job with that. You are always trying to find a better way and because of that, I think your service that you're providing to everybody...I hope people watch this. I promote it on my sites, as you know, and I want to thank you, and of course, also your crew, Brian. Thank you so much for letting me share this time with you again.
Richard Helppie
The only thing I would dispute with you, I don't think you're on the left or I'm on the right. I think we're in the same place. We're pragmatic. What are the facts? Let's get something done. Let's be sensible. It's not about winning, it's about making progress, serving people. You've been in business, I've been in business, and what anybody that's been in those roles understands is you have to satisfy that customer, and you have to nurture that workforce, and you can't do that unless you really care about the other people in that enterprise. And I've never seen a business run top down with somebody barking out orders because people elsewhere in the organization let them fail. Nobody's going to help them. It's important that, like any president of the country, president of a company, you’ve got to listen, got to get the input, and eventually a decision has to be made, an action taken. I think you and I are both in the pragmatic camp. I don't consider myself right or left, I'm just pragmatic. We've been talking today with one of our special return guests. I hope you've enjoyed the conversation with Robert Greenfield, a very serious businessman, an astute observer of society, politics, and media with a footprint in Asia, Europe and in Australia, and, of course, in good old Detroit, Michigan. And with our guest, Robert Greenfield, this is your host, Rich Helppie, signing off on The Common Bridge.
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