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Richard Helppie
Hello, welcome to a very special and spontaneous edition of The Common Bridge. We're recording this on Friday, May 17. I'm just saying that upfront in case anybody on today's program makes any predictions; we'll have the benefit of hindsight perhaps. And of course, coming up on The Common Bridge we're going to be talking about Title IX and some of the changes. We've got programs on energy, on vehicles, and Europe with a very popular guest, Robert Greenfield. And today, just out of nowhere, our favorite man inside the beltway, Justin Higgins, has agreed to join us. We're just going to have a very informal talk about whatever comes up. Justin has been working in Washington DC for many years and he's the host of the Politics and Media 101 podcast. He's also a big Boston Bruins fan besides. So glad your team is still in the playoffs, Justin, and how are you?
Justin Higgins
I'm living on a prayer like my Bruins, Rich. It's game six tonight. We're down three, two. We've got to win two in a row. But no, it's fantastic to be back here with you on your program. I'm looking forward to getting into everything politics right now.
Richard Helppie
Very cool. Well, it seems like we're getting a lot more about politics and trying to get as far away from the issues as we can. I was listening for what aren't we hearing about. Let's see...healthcare, firearms, the border, housing, COVID - of course, don't want to talk about that. Trade has come up recently. It looks like Joe Biden's discovered another popular program for Donald Trump and he's going to adopt that. But we do hear a lot about the conflict with Israel and Gaza and Hamas, the unrest on the college campuses, what's going to happen in the Ukraine. And of course, we still have the abortion issue, literally being beaten to death. We're here in a swing state and Michigan started way too early, but they're here. So Justin, from the beltway, what are you guys talking about there?
Justin Higgins
Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, Rich. It's coming up to a massively important election in a very polarized country. So obviously, the campaign - specifically the presidential campaign - is of major focus to the point where a lot of the other very important races that could determine the Senate and House are kind of just in the background. Then all the issues that you mentioned, we've recently...what was it? A month ago, we had a major foreign aid build funding Taiwan, Israel, Ukraine. So that had been a focus. Abortion is consistently and continually focused due to the impact it will likely have in the campaign, and then other campaign themes like democracy. That's a campaign theme that the Biden campaign is focusing on. There are also these lawsuits going on. But really to simplify it Rich, it's the 2024 campaign, that's what everybody's focused on. You're either excited or afraid and that's where all the energy is.
Richard Helppie
Well, you can mark me and a lot of people as just disgusted. Because it seems like the folks in the beltway, they've succeeded at crushing populism or so they think, because they don't talk about it, apparently. So we have two very dysfunctional parties with a stranglehold on the nation. Poll after poll shows people still don't want Biden or Trump yet this is what we're being handed. It's a horrible choice to make because, on the record, you can't really vote for either one of them, can you?
Justin Higgins
Well, I mean, that's where we - you and I - have a lot of disagreements. I don't think the parties are equally dysfunctional. I think that the recent and historic dysfunction in the GOP House with the whole speaker issue, struggling to elect a speaker then removing the speaker then struggling to elect another one, it's really a new level of dysfunction running for two years.
Richard Helppie
Look, that's inside the beltway view. Let me tell you where it's viewed out here. The Democrats did the right thing. They said we're not going to let that extreme edge of the Republicans - or the extreme edge of our party - influence the speaker. So the centrist Democrats crossed over and we have a speaker of the House. It's not supposed to be a Speaker of the Republicans or a Speaker of the Democrats. The Marjorie Taylor-Greens and the Ocasio-Cortez are muted, their votes aren't needed because enough people in the middle said enough of this stuff. But it's being captured as a failure of the Republicans for not being able to sway people like Marjorie Taylor-Greene, who apparently is unpersuadable And if she's as portrayed in the news media, she's a nut job.
Justin Higgins
She is, I believe.
Richard Helppie
Have you ever met her or been in the same room with her?
Justin Higgins
No, thankfully, I try and keep my distance from those type of folks that are maybe unhinged. I do really like how you describe centrist Democrats as saving Speaker Johnson, which is true because it was led by Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. He is a centrist Democrat, like most of the Democrats in the party. They all banded together and they saved him. But I think the interesting thing here, which might be new to your listeners, is one of the main reasons why I believe that Speaker Johnson was saved and Speaker McCarthy...
Richard Helppie
First of all, why do you call it saved? Why not just, he was elected by a majority of the House? Why are we using that term - "saved?"
Justin Higgins
Well, because he was.
Richard Helppie
Was he elected or saved. Did they say, we are now voting to save Mike Johnson?
Justin Higgins
The vote at the table, the motion which is saving him. So they didn't vote to elect him. Democrats did not vote to elect him. They most literally voted to prevent the motion to fire him from reaching the floor. They didn't vote to affirm his speakership. So the way that I view that is, they voted to save him. I think the interesting part here though, is folks may or may not think that policy disagreements or some other ideological disagreements between McCarthy and Johnson is what led Democrats to save him. It's very interesting, and this kind of encapsulates a lot of what Capitol Hill and specifically the House is run on, it's simple why Johnson was saved. Democrats don't hate him on an interpersonal level like they did Speaker McCarthy. It shows you that you don't have to be maybe the most skilled to have the position of Speaker of the House. I think a lot of people would say that McCarthy is maybe a more skilled fundraiser, which is a big aspect of the role. But in life, in elections, in friendships and relationships, being likable, or at least not detestable, matters. That's what saved Speaker Johnson, and like you're saying, it is a good thing.
Richard Helppie
You're saying that from the inside the beltway a threshold to be reached is to not be hated? (Justin Higgins: Yes!) Like this is supposed to be our best and brightest representing We the People and we're saying, hey, guess what, we got a guy that's not hated. It's absurd when people are running around with trillion dollar budgets, multi-trillion dollar deficits. You mentioned the international aid package, which was sold as hey, no worries, because we're going to be building those arms and munitions in the United States. It'll be great for jobs. And I'm looking at that...it's like, okay, if I burn down the schoolhouse - better be careful...I say that theoretically, metaphorically - it'll be good for jobs rebuilding it. It's the same logic. It's like, what are people drinking and what air are they sniffing there that they think that's a good idea? Then all I hear in this campaign...here's...as you know, I've tried to get attention to something other than Republicans and Democrats. I never said that Donald Trump was qualified to be the President of the United States. Joe Biden was supposed to return us to normalcy, be a one term president, and we're going to go set a different course. Of course, none of that's happened. I've had Dean Phillips on my show, who had a short lived campaign. We've talked about the numbers and Nikki Haley, what she picked up. Voters have had it, but we're getting not a third party, not getting rationality from either major party, but can we scare you enough about the other guy in order to win? I think both of their campaigns, if I was going to save money on their campaigns, I'd say just go with one slogan. It says, I know you are, but what am I? That's what it sounds like.
Justin Higgins
I don't disagree that voters claim to be dissatisfied. However, we just had two primaries, and voters had the opportunity to not vote for President Biden or former President Trump. And in resounding fashion, they reaffirmed - the parties reaffirmed the voters - that they want these two to be their candidates. I do agree with you that energy is low in this election. I would assume - and projecting into the future is very difficult - that turnout will be reduced. But I just think it's hard because voters did have an opportunity to vote for Dean Phillips, he was getting less than one tenth of one percent in some places. It's just hard to square whether or not it's the media dissatisfaction or there really is a true dissatisfaction in the country because voters are voting the other way.
Richard Helppie
You made a point about the primaries, which is factual; can't dispute that, people did go out and vote. But were they informed? So by way of example, Donald Trump never showed up on a debate stage with Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, or any of the other challengers, which he should have. And Joe Biden, the DNC basically anointed him, [they] canceled primaries in Florida. I would have loved to see Joe Biden and Dean Phillips, RFK Jr. or Marianne Williamson on stage; let's talk about this. But instead, it was the “let's hide Joe in the basement” again. And Trump is - while there were actual debates going on, which did have some substance - out there pontificating in front of the loyal. They were rewarded with nominations or anticipated nominations, I guess there's always...Is there any speculation that either one of them won't make the ballot for any reason at all?
Justin Higgins
I don't think so. Unforeseen health consequences for two 80 plus year old men notwithstanding, I can't imagine there being any reason why they wouldn't make the ballot.
Richard Helppie
There's always speculation and things and sometimes people just have a job to write something so they write that, but I can't imagine two ambitious guys like this, with the arguably most powerful position in the world in their sights, would say, you know what, I'm not going to do it. It's like, Joe Biden, same thing, he was supposed to be one term. He got in there and it's like, yeah, I think, you know, we'll do another one, or at least his handlers have said that. So what's going to affect the election? We've talked a lot about COVID four years ago, and nobody wants to talk about that now, because it apparently brings up too many bad policy decisions and a good dose of idiotic behavior. And we have the clash with Israel and Hamas; is that going to dominate our politics this year or is there something else?
Justin Higgins
Rich, to take a step back, and a lot of folks in the beltway, a lot of staffers on campaigns in the beltway in the House and Senate, lose sight of this. What is an election? It's a popularity contest. So what is going to affect this election? Ultimately, it's a popularity contest, Rich. So you'd love to say policy would be the big thing that influences the election, you'd love to see something in the news right now, months and months and months prior to the election that will impact it. But we need to remember this. Most voters, 80% of voters, are already decided. There are 19% of voters that are traditionally swing voters, which are categorized as low information voters - that does not mean these people are stupid - but that means these people are not listening to The Common Bridge, or Politics Media 101 every week and tuning into news or reading your Fox News articles. It just means that they have a lower level of interest and what influences those people largely is the last two weeks of a campaign. So to give you a very specific answer, it's not policy record, because I personally think Biden has a great one of those, ultimately, its outcomes and its messaging. And both folks, both Trump and Biden, are going to struggle with those two realities.
Richard Helppie
Indeed, and there are lots of attack service on both of them. But you mentioned popularity, we have a popular vote. I don't think there's probably much dispute that the Democrats are going to win the popular vote, they're going to win it on either California or New York - they don't need anybody else. Biden won seven million votes in 2020 and six million of those came from California, The District of Columbia votes overwhelmingly Democratic. Only Saddam Hussein's 99% seemed to be stronger in a one party way. New York, around New York City, is overwhelmingly Democrat. But it is going to come down to a handful of states. They keep talking about it. I don't know what the numbers are exactly; five or seven states...who's a swing state and who's not a swing state? But given the attention we're getting here in Michigan, I've got to figure that we're for sure one of those. What's the view on that?
Justin Higgins
Yes. So typically seven. You have North Carolina - I'm going to try and do this off the top my head - you have Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Nevada, and Arizona. They are typically the seven swing states. As you mentioned, the polling is kind of all over the place. I think we can assume that, in a lot of these places, it's in one or two percentage points pro-Trump right now, if we were to have the election day today, based on an aggregate of polling. So what you're going to see - what you've already told your listeners - you're already seeing all of these ads. That's super unique because, typically speaking, ads don't really start to ramp up until a month or two before the election and then they continue to ramp up at an exponential level two weeks out, a week out, Election Day. So bluntly, you are going to be - you and your fellow Michiganders - are going to be just inundated with campaign messaging. All that I can speak to is what I perceive the key points to be moving forward, which is for the Democrats it's going to be democracy, it's going to be abortion and very soon here, it's going to be run on a reduction of crime. And then for the Republicans, it's largely going to be immigration and then an economic argument: inflation is too big, it's too bad, it hasn't come down. Those are typically the battle lines that I see being drawn. Now who's able to resonate with which voters will ultimately determine this election. That's no secret.
Richard Helppie
It's interesting that you didn't mention Ohio or Florida in that swing state list. Florida, I understand. Florida, I spend quite a bit of time there. The governor is doing a great job, not the caricatures you're seeing reported, Florida is doing great. But Ohio, you think Ohio is not in play?
Justin Higgins
I think it's like R plus ten now, Rich, it's really gone. I think that that spells...doesn't matter in the general election for president. It does spell problems, though, for Democrats in the Senate because there is a massive Senate race with incumbent progressive Sherrod Brown, who is beloved by a lot of crossover voters in the state, even though he's a progressive, because they feel he embodies that state. Can he win in an R plus ten state? And then Montana, John Tesar, similar, farmer has seven fingers because he chopped them off farming. Moderate, beloved in the state. Can he win a Democratic Senate seat in a presidential election year in R plus 20 state? Those two states could ultimately determine who controls the Senate. So no, I think Ohio is gone and it's a big problem for Senate Democrats.
Richard Helppie
I'm interested in the issues that you have, but Democrats running on reduced crime, given what's going on in New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco and a party that is associated with this notion of let's defund the police, that people in low income neighborhoods are saying, are you out of your mind? And we've seen turnstile justice go back to Portland, Oregon - clearly a left wing operation, people were destroying federal property - being turned out. I don't understand how they're going to make that pivot to reducing crime. Okay, let's see it. By the way, they're not talking about that in the ads I'm seeing for Biden here. It's pretty much abortion is all you're going to get.
Justin Higgins
If I had my druthers, they would be running on the facts, which is that crime has reduced massively. This is impromptu, so I don't have the stats in front of me...[crosstalk] but the numbers are staggering, especially in New York. I think it's down 80%. I live in DC, one of the major cities where the mayor has done a horrific job. I have a recall Charles Allen sign out in front of my yard. He is a progressive council member who's defund the police and stuff like that. DC is one of the cities that has seen the least reduction in crime; it's still down 27% from year over year. The numbers though, are on par or a little bit lower in these major cities than when Trump was president, so you can run a campaign on the facts.
Richard Helppie
As a data scientist, okay, of a long time and understanding where the data comes from, it's just like Biden trying to convince us that inflation is under control as people go and spend four bucks for eggs and five dollars plus or minus for gasoline. When you have less police and when there's no consequences, the effort people will make to report a crime goes down and there aren't people there to record it and voila, it's not in the data, even though the crime occurred. But if you look at things, more people are buying alarm systems, firearms, dogs, etc, you're going to tie in to immigration...where the most populous county in Michigan, one of the wealthiest counties in the country, in Oakland County, the sheriff is coming out and saying there are these organized gangs coming in from Chile that have learned how to jam home alarm systems and pull off very sophisticated burglaries. I think it's a loser for the Democrats, and particularly the mayor you've got in New York today, he's not going to be on board with that.
Justin Higgins
I think that this kind of encapsulates why running on the facts is so difficult, I think it can be done if you tie in emotion, but a lot of what you just said is wrong. For example, President Biden has increased police funding over his time in office significantly more than Trump ever did. Then additionally, if you were to break down the districts and jurisdictions in Republican and Democrat, based on the House of Representatives, one hundred more million dollars of that increased funding over the Trump levels - one hundred more million of that went to Democratic districts. So there is a factual argument rooted in data and science that shows that Democrats are taking...
Richard Helppie
You're talking spending, not effectiveness.
Justin Higgins
You just said though, Rich, that the spending on police is down.
Richard Helppie
So they're restoring some of the levels; the number of recruiting deficits at police forces is material. And here's the flip side and I don't know how to extricate from this dilemma, that it's all we're going to have more police and almost immediately, it's this hue and cry against over policing. UCLA, the student group that wanted to do what they're captioning pro-Palestinian demonstrations, one of the settlement things was don't call the city police to come to the campus; a New York Police Department accused of over-reacting at Columbia. And many people from all stripes are looking at Chicago with trepidation; are we going to have another 1968? By the way, I'm going to be doing a show with some people that are in Kosovo trying to put in the rule of law, and how difficult it is from the law, through the police force, through the prosecutors, through the judges, through the certainty of punishment and such. I don't think Americans know what to expect from the criminal justice system these days. So a clear, here's what we're going to do to bring integrity to that entire arc...again, I'm just giving you the view from the Midwest, people don't know where to turn and I don't think they think it's going to come from Washington, DC. frankly.
Justin Higgins
I hear you, Rich. But again, that's why policy initiatives for folks that aren't paying attention don't really matter. In 2023, more police officers were sworn in than any of the previous four years. That includes '19 and' 20 - President Trump's last two years in office. There's more money, more police officers being sworn in, the policies are trying to address the problem. It's just we're getting back to what I originally said. It's the outcomes - which again, the crime data would seem to suggest are improving - and the ability to message. I think that that's where President Biden's big Achilles heel is because even if he is accomplishing all of these things...again, inflation is not perfect. It's going to be very difficult for him to sell it to the American public when he's an old guy who struggles at messaging and isn't always in front of the cameras, when you have a different media ecosystem on the Left, for example, MSNBC is not going to be touting the facts on crime reduction, because that's probably not what they think energizes most of their viewers, they probably don't think it juices their audience. So if you have a president that can't message on his own, you have a media ecosystem that isn't incentivized to do it for him, then what you have happen is you don't have word of mouth messaging, you don't have conversations like this happening between friends. We're just debating and discussing, and then all of a sudden, oh, wow, I didn't know all these facts or wow, I didn't know that the country was heading in this direction. You're reducing word of mouth marketing as well. This is to say that the facts really don't matter here. Biden is in a big deficit and it's because of his inability to message and outcomes not being absolutely perfect.
Richard Helppie
That's a Democrat talking point; hey, we're doing a great job, but we suck at messaging. With the communication arms, they have control of most of the major media outlets, and they can't get the story straight, and they've got the bully pulpit of the White House...just doesn't seem to hold water. And while we're talking about...
Justin Higgins
I think Democrats are great at messaging. I'm just saying that there are structural differences.
Richard Helppie
Wait, wait a minute. You just said that they weren't.
Justin Higgins
No, I did not. If if you heard me, I...
Richard Helppie
You said that Biden is not good at messaging. He's too old or something.
Justin Higgins
Okay, so right. Democrats are different than Biden.
Richard Helppie
Biden's not leading the Democratic Party?
Justin Higgins
Yes. However, right, Biden is one candidate, and he has a immense role to play. He is not good at messaging; you saying Democrats are not good at messaging is not what I said.
Richard Helppie
What I'm telling you is that the Democrats are saying they're not good at messaging. Because I'm a fiercely independent, center of the road person. I don't like what the Republicans are doing. I think they're the deer in the headlights party; with a gun to my head, I don't think I could tell you what the Republicans stand for and what they would do. And I look at the Democrats as the gang that can't shoot straight, that they're just running around from one emotional thing to the other. We need better government. Our people...and I talk to people from all walks of life, every day and universally they're just disgusted with what we're getting out of the federal government. Now, contrast that; local governments are really stepping up and part of it's due in funding that they're getting...by way of example, City of Detroit is an amazing place today, there's so much going on. Part of it's Mike Duggan, and Mike is a centrist, get-it-done, mayor. He is a loyal member of the Democratic Party. Some people might say he's the key to Joe Biden winning or losing the state of Michigan because of the large population. And man, oh, man, Mike is doing a great job, I support him, I'd love to see him be governor or even president someday, because he's what we use to elect - people who take care of problems. But that's what the Democrats are saying, they can't message. Let's kind of blend those two things together, where we talked about law enforcement and messaging. I remember in the not too distant past, all we heard was 91 counts, 91 counts, 91 counts, 91 counts, 91 counts. Then, being a curious sort with a high reading comprehension, I actually went in and read the documents and I'm like, well, this is nonsense. The first of the law-fare trials are over, which said two very sophisticated parties came together in a very complicated transaction, both were happy with it and later on a Democratic attorney general and a judge decided it wasn't a good deal, extracted one piece out of it, extrapolated it into this damage claim - complete nonsense. Now we're looking at people looking at the Alvin Bragg case. Again, complete nonsense. Now when I'm listening to my Democratic friends, they're going well, we really didn't believe in those cases. Like really, you didn't believe in destroying all the justice system? My guess...again, I want to see anybody prosecuted, president or not, doesn't matter to me. Justin, whether someone believes in the cases that have been captured, law-fare or not, from a political strategy, any sense of how it's being viewed in the beltway? Is that something that people think, oh, maybe we shouldn't have done that, we need to back out or we really got...
Justin Higgins
Rich, so similar to you, I think that anybody that breaks a law should be prosecuted, no matter the political implications. So if the net result is that it hurts Trump, from my personal perspective, I mean, if the net result is that it helps Trump get elected by prosecuting him, then you still have to do it because the rule of law matters. Everybody should be treated equal. To your question directly, I think there's a divided view. I think that looking at it from how the cable news networks have covered it, what you can see is they really were amped up for a massive amount of interest from the general public, specifically, the news consuming general public, and they have since dialed back their coverage because folks like me are not interested. I do not care about these two cases. I'm not following them. I'm not interested in them. Generally speaking...
Richard Helppie
Just on a tangent, are you still consuming the cable programs? I'm going to tell you, I dislike...they're so predictable: Fox, MSNBC, CNN. I will peek over there every now and then. I'm getting the direct to consumer journalism from Substack and other independent publications, just because I'm not getting anything...
Justin Higgins
I don't want to malign all the pundits, for example on CNN, Elie Honig, I think is honest. I think he's down the middle. I think he's engaging. So I'm not maligning everybody, however, no, I have not been consuming cable news as much because as I get older and mature and have worked in this industry a while I'm realizing that most people on there don't know what the heck they're talking about. They don't have experience in the field. They don't have expertise from studying it and internalizing the messaging. It is just a lot of talking points. Substack, yes, like The Common Bridge, even though I may not agree with most or all of what you write. But also Rich, I'm a sucker for reading so I read my Fox News, my Wall Street Journal, that's punch bowl news...New York Times. That's where I get it. But I agree, over the last, for me, it was two or three years, I've kind of begun to tune out cable news, like most Americans.
Richard Helppie
Great, well...by the way, don't forget that my brand promises something for everyone to not like in every episode so I appreciate the affirmation. Inside the beltway on the law-fare, you said you're not following it that close. I've read this stuff and what they keep repeating is "hush money," it's not even about hush money. It's about business entries. When you look at the timeline, there's literally nothing there and the governor of New York's actually intimated that and it just looks bad. Again, I don't have any sympathy for Trump, I don't think Trump should be in the political arena. I think he had his shot. He chose not to act like an adult when he held the office and he just needs to go away. I've said that over and over again and I still see these suits and stuff, pumping air into the guy.
Justin Higgins
There's a lot to unpack here. I'm going to say...before we get into it, I'm going to say this, I don't think this matters that much at all come election day, because of those 19% of voters that are largely low info, not following this, they will have forgotten, likely. And then whatever happens, the October surprise as we all know, will influence things much more so and specifically the last two weeks in the election. But I would tend to agree with you that, generally speaking, the lesson we received from the Bill Clinton impeachment trial - he was impeached basically for lying, but it was really for adultery - his approval rating went up through the trial reaching 77% at the end. So I would say specifically, the core of these charges yes, it's campaign finance violations, however, the deed or the action was cheating on his pregnant wife for the porn star. I just don't think that that resonates with Americans that much. [Laughter]
Richard Helppie
The sorry state of our politics is a - and I'm glad I'm on an independent network here - a blowjob from a 23 year old intern and a rocking evening with a porn actress are seen the same [way] in American politics. You gotta laugh, it's just too funny. But you think about the amount of coverage that's been spilled on it, it's the ridiculous. I've also noted some of the coverage afterwards, like all the slut shaming that went on with the young women that Bill Clinton manipulated, yet the defensive slut shaming - on a woman who literally makes her living having sex on a camera - she's now virtuous for whatever weird reason that is. Let's talk about democracy. This is another thing, that we have to save our democracy. I've noticed that tagline has dropped out of the lexicon, why?
Justin Higgins
Well, I don't know if that specific tagline has dropped out. I'll take your word for it, but the two central themes of Biden's campaign are going to be democracy and abortion. It's going to be something that we see continuously. For example, you're going to have rule of law arguments. You're going to have Ukraine funding arguments targeting those Haley voters. There's a reason why she's not on the ballot, yet 20-30% of Republican primary voters are voting against Donald Trump, because these arguments do resonate, whether it's here in the United States or overseas. Specifically, they resonate with a lot of people that are focusing on politics. These 19% of voters, I'm going to get back to them, Rich, they are not ideologically charged. Most of them think that politicians - rightly so in a lot of cases - lie on both sides, so you can't trust either of them. They're going to go into the last two weeks of the election; maybe abortion grabs [them] one way or the other, maybe they're pro-life or pro-choice and that'll swing their vote. However, if you have two candidates that you think are both too old, that you think both lie all the time, and you see one candidate in an advertisement stoking what many would believe to be an insurrection, versus another guy who doesn't have that same type of "let's go storm the Capitol" rhetoric, directly showing these type of riots, that, many people believe, may be enough to swing the election. That is to say nothing of the substance of the argument.
Richard Helppie
It's hard to argue with that. Look, I thought that Donald Trump's behavior and his rhetoric on the sixth of January in 2021, was reprehensible. I don't know that it rose to insurrection or a criminal but clearly, it was beneath the office of the presidency. I remember listening live to him. What he was trying to get Mike Pence to do was absurd. I don't know that we'll ever have the full story of what actually happened at the Capitol because other than some windows and things, there wasn't a lot damaged. I mean, if you compare the damage in the Capitol versus the Multanomah County Courthouse or the precinct in Minneapolis, I mean, there's a lot more destruction that went on there. What were people doing? What did they think they were doing? I don't know, that we'll ever know. But I think Trump disqualified himself then because he did what I always said about him; he doesn't know the job of the president. He doesn't seem to want to know the job of the president and he's got massive personal issues. I think not going to the inauguration and gracefully exiting, just showed he didn't know how to do the job as president. Now, I also think that the Democrats overplayed his hand, that the made-for-TV, slickly produced hearings, everybody could see right through that. That was a show not a trial, it was not really a hearing. That it's really hard...there's a concept in law called having clean hands and for a guy that's been caught with the censoring, like Joe Biden has, saying we're going to protect democracy. I'm like, really? What, that's your version of democracy? It's like, it's pretty scary what I see happening in the court system. That's not democracy either when you're weaponizing the justice system, when we now know what the FBI was doing in 2016 and after, and it's met with a shrug. Recently, Biden's own videos - when he was being investigated by special prosecutor Robert Hur - oh, wait a minute, all of a sudden those are presidential privilege. It's like, that's not the transparent, open, honest government, the democracy the populism, that we were promised we were going to get. Had Joe Biden actually done the return to normalcy and he actually protected the Constitution, he'd be up 75-25 right now. The only reason he's not, and the only reason Trump's still in the game is basically what Biden and the Democrats have done. I mean, there's nothing to recommend Donald Trump for another term other than you don't like the other guy better.
Justin Higgins
I won't go through one by one but I fundamentally disagree on a lot of what you said. I think, though, for me, it comes down to...even if I were to accept the premise that you laid out about Biden and implying that he's as bad...
Richard Helppie
Look, there's no dispute that they censored through the social media platforms. They took out knowledgeable people talking about science and said, we don't like what they were saying. Not that it wasn't true, not that it was put out there for a nefarious purpose; we just didn't like it. We know that they knew that the Hunter Biden laptop was authentic, and it contained information that was harmful to Joe and we know they suppressed the story. We know that they got 51 intelligence heads to say it wasn't true. That's scary. I mean, that's just frightening, that kind of restriction on free and accurate information. And you watch Biden's "I've never been involved with my son's business," oh, yeah, well, we did talk about it...oh, I never talked to his business associates. But yes, I did, we just talked about the weather. Okay, well, he's the highest paid weatherman in the history of weather forecasting. I mean, to me it's just so obvious. This is not making a case for Trump. It's saying that if you're going to put your stake down on democracy, you've got to show a better example: here's what Trump did, here's what we do. And by the way, I want to remind you, after Trump won in 2016, we had riots and we had cities burning - Washington DC had riots.
Justin Higgins
So a couple of things are happening here. The royal "we" is doing a lot of work. I do not know what you just said. Furthermore, if what you just said...[crosstalk]...let me finish...
Richard Helppie
I've actually read the documents...(Justin Higgins: Let me finish my...) [crosstalk] video I've seen. How can you deny that Washington wasn't on fire in 2017 and that there weren't riots?
Justin Higgins
I would love to be able to respond to at least one point that you're throwing out there in full.
Richard Helppie
You're starting with what I'm saying isn't factual. Justin, you need to say, this is what I don't think is factual. This is the problem people have with the beltway, when they hear something that they don't like, no matter how factual it is, it's like we're going to cancel it. We're going to erase it. We're not going to hear it.
Justin Higgins
I'm trying to respond and you're not letting me respond. You're the one canceling me...we can get...we can pick them all out because if anything...can I finish?! If anything you said was remotely accurate and accepted as truth, the House Republicans, which have run a two year campaign on impeaching Biden for everything that you cited, they would have enough votes in their own party after a two year investigation to bring Articles of Impeachment forward. They're not even voting on this stuff. The Articles of Impeachment aren't going anywhere, because we - as you put it - do not know what you just asserted that we know. As a result, the whole campaign that James Comer and Jim Jordan and others have embarked on has been a big fat failure; that is all that I'm saying...
Richard Helppie
I never mentioned impeachment or Comer, [crosstalk] I think the impeachment, I think it's been...it is a club that's been wielded unnecessarily. I'm glad that there's not an impeachment hearing. It should be up to the voters to decide this. But it doesn't mean we can't get the facts out. Again, you're proving my point that the Republicans don't know their butt from third base, because that's where they're spending their time. It's the deer in the headlights, they don't know what else to do so they have a hearing about that.
Justin Higgins
It's just if the president was proven to have violated the First Amendment, then he should be impeached. The Republicans have sought...and that's what you're claiming happened. The Republicans have sought for two years into [crosstalk].
Richard Helppie
It's documented in the Twitter files. You can read it. They did it. (Justin Higgins: in those Twitter files...) they're being sued by Martin Kulldorf, they're being sued elsewhere for this so there is legal recourse going on. And their defense is, hey, we didn't do it, the social media platforms did it. But yet, you've got testimony from the people running social media saying, yeah, we had an open channel to find out what they liked and what they didn't like. It's like if someone said, yeah, you didn't do it, but it was like; nice social media platform you got here, be a shame if something happened to it. I mean, we're in a modern society interconnected with a lot of information sources and we're in precarious times. It looks like those that are in power are abusing that. We need to call it out because it's not going to end well for you or for me.
Justin Higgins
I think that ultimately, we're not going to agree on the facts or acknowledge that the Republicans have investigated this for two years and have failed to bring partisan Articles of Impeachment forward, because even members of their own party who are objectively looking at these same facts, are not convinced. But what it comes down to for me is, if you were to assume and take your premise accurately, ultimately, one president for two months tried to undermine the legitimacy of an election and stop a peaceful transfer of power through the "big steal." As a result of his comments you're saying we don't know what happened in the Capitol. We as sure shit do. We have thousands of hours of videotape that was released, with people smearing their own shit on the walls of our Capitol building, going and threatening members of Congress in their offices. The Republican chairman of the Natural Resources Committee was hiding like a little freak in Kevin McCarthy's toilet with a sword because he thought these Trump supporters were going to come and string them all up. So from my perspective, I again disagree with your premise that Biden is just the biggest threat to democracy as Trump. However, if I were to accept your premise, for me, somebody's pushing the big lie and undermining peaceful transfer of power, it's more concerning than the alternative and that's kind of where I think a lot of Americans will come down.
Richard Helppie
That's a fair point. My objection to the beltway is the clean hands thing and to double down on governing with integrity...but you and I are in agreement, I think Trump was absolutely out of line and I said it at the time; it was appalling. Again, this primary information and the point I was making about the people walking through between the ropes, not destroying the statuary, not setting things on fire; compare that to the Multanomah County, the federal courthouse in Multanomah County, which was utterly destroyed and left in ruins.
Justin Higgins
Yeah, Rich, they were just trying to hang the Vice President. It's all in good fun, right?
Richard Helppie
Well, this is really interesting that you bring that up because who put those gallows out there and were they full size?
Justin Higgins
If you're if you're arguing about whether the gallows, to hang the Vice President, from the mob that was chanting “hang Mike Pence” - we're full size or not, I think...
Richard Helppie
Who was there? Who put the bombs by the RNC and the DNC? We don't know.
Justin Higgins
I'm going to venture it was not Democrats, just to guess.
Richard Helppie
I don't know that there's Republican or Democrat bombs, but there was one on each one.
Justin Higgins
Republican's stormed the capital so [Laughter] I think we can...
Richard Helppie
We don't disagree. They shouldn't have been in the capital. Trump shouldn't have been egging them on. What he was asking his Vice President to do was absolutely unconstitutional and abhorrent. Mike Pence stood up and did the right thing which kind of leads us to this sorry situation we're in. In the election that we're going to be holding in about six months, we know who the presidential nominees are going to be barring any unforeseen health or other circumstances. We know who one of the vice president nominees are going to be. Who might Donald Trump pick as a vice president and who might accept that?
Justin Higgins
I think a lot of people will accept that because that's the state of Republican politics right now. I think that one of his more prominent or likely choices was Kristi Noem, but she has admitted to being a sociopath. There's really...like, we can cross her name off. Killing a puppy, I represented a Tea Party, fifth generation farmer...[Laughter]
Richard Helppie
Excuse me for laughing but this is going to go down as one of the biggest political fails ever.
Justin Higgins
Like, it's bad. Rich, I'm a kid from New Hampshire so like, I'm not your rural guy. I've worked for a Tea Party, fifth generation farmer from the most rural part of Kansas. I can tell you, rural Americans and farmers are not rushing out to kill puppies that they cannot train. [Laughter]
Richard Helppie
And like, my qualification...are you qualified to be VP, Kamala Harris? Let me tell you what I did with a kitten with my 357 Magnum.
Justin Higgins
Editors previously, like mainstream editors, had taken the story out. But now she went to a conservative editor and they didn't see anything wrong with it.
Richard Helppie
Talk about detonating a QR code, so let's just stick with that. It's not going to be her who might be a candidate. Let me throw a name out to you just for fun, okay. And I'd love your insight on this: Nikki Haley.
Justin Higgins
He should pick her, that would be perfect. What he needs to do is play identity politics, that's normally what's done, or electoral politics, one of the two. That's normally done, why you pick a VP; so either they're from a state you want to win or they have characteristics that you want to project to the voting public. Nikki Haley, a woman, that is huge because of the suburban woman flight that is happening from the GOP and Trump's garish nature at heart. He should pick her. She also would attempt to bring back the voters, the moderates, that are leaving the party over democracy and all those fears. She would be perfect. It gets back to Speaker Johnson vs. Speaker McCarthy where we kind of began our discussion, Rich, interpersonal dynamics run a lot of this. Trump hates Nikki Haley so I can't see it happening.
Richard Helppie
I look at it...I mean, politics makes strange bedfellows. Kamala Harris said some really nasty things about Joe Biden in the debates leading up to his election, but it's like, okay, we're putting that aside now. We're going to go play the general election and it worked for him. I think Nikki Haley would basically be the adult in the room and give people a reason to go there. I don't know if she'd take it or not. Trump's ego is probably in the way. What about Sarah Huckabee?
Justin Higgins
I don't think so. She doesn't have that crossover appeal to normal women that Nikki Haley does because Sarah's not normal. You've seen her screaming and hollering and shouting.
Richard Helppie
I don't know much about her. She doesn't seem to have the gravitas as a VP (Justin Higgins: Elegance.) I'm just trying to [crosstalk] Liz Cheney's probably off the list.
Justin Higgins
She's going to be hung right after Mike Pence if Trump gets his way.
Richard Helppie
Pence already said he's out. DeSantis, they're saying '28. He's just letting the chips fall where they may, and then also then about Haley, that she could be there because Christie has said he won't take it. (Justin Higgins: Trump won't pick him anyways.) Yeah. Doug Burgum from Dakota, he could be a big nothing burger to me. It sounds like that's not going to hunt.
Justin Higgins
I agree, but I would not be shocked. In 2016, when we were going through all of the potential choices that Trump was going to pick when I was at the RNC, Bob Corker was a senator from Tennessee, who was much more charismatic than Burgum, he was the choice. And Corker said, no. Corker stood on a stage at a Trump rally in Tennessee, trying to make up his mind and Corker said, no, this man is deranged and he's a threat to democracy. I'm not going to be his VP. Then he picked Mike Pence. I do think Burgum...as you know he's a white guy, which resonates with Trump. He's a farmer, which maybe he can project as being tough. I personally like Burgum, before he took this Trump turn, I think he's eccentric. He's worth hundreds of millions of dollars so you could see how that could appeal to Trump. I think it would be a bad choice. I think Trump should pick a black Republican or a woman, to be quite frank. That leaves us, in my simple mind, with maybe Tim Scott potentially as one option who...he speaks like he has a mouthful of marbles, not sure that's great. He's also super awkward, basically bought a girlfriend for the primary campaign. So not really sure if that dog hunts and...
Richard Helppie
It's always a war mine with Trump then.
Justin Higgins
Yeah, except I think Mr. Scott's actually religious.
Richard Helppie
You're saying he's got a chance, and Burgum and Huckabee, they'd have to check how their childhood pets met their demise, I would imagine. [Laughter]
Justin Higgins
Burgum, not. Maybe Huckabee. Sanders has but Burgum has not shot any kittens or puppies. The other, maybe Elise Stefanik. She's a strong woman. She used to be a moderate. She's in New York. She says crazy stuff, really, really crazy stuff that resonates with Trump. She's a card carrying J-6er, so I think there's a lot of appeal there. She's female, she could try to address the suburban woman flight.
Richard Helppie
Wait a minute. What's a card carrying J-6er? I've never heard that term before. What is that?
Justin Higgins
She completely supports the big lie, she does not really condone what happened on January 6, she is a person that has put her personal ambition, overall integrity and objectivity - to the point where she is somebody that will do and say whatever Trump wants - to gain his favor. She has done that and taken that approach with January 6 so I made up that snide term because I do not find that an enviable trait.
Richard Helppie
I listen to like a lot of stuff out of Washington. I'm like, these guys don't ever live in the same place that I live. (Justin Higgins: Just a turn of phrase.) Yeah, okay. So if you look at those seven swing states, I can't think of any name that jumps out - now you're more versed in this than I am - but Kemp, out of Georgia, I guess he said don't call him, is my understanding. Glenn Youngkin out of Virginia, not a swing state but traditionally a swing state, they floated his name. I mean, would that be a good move?
Justin Higgins
I think, yeah. I mean, I would be...I don't know if he would do it because Glenn Youngkin is similar to Burgum in that he is massively independently wealthy. He's got hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in personal wealth, which is a good thing, Trump likes that. I think he's prim and proper, opposed to Burgum [who] is eccentric, which when juxtaposing it with Trump on the ticket, there are some benefits there. He's a southerner. And if you look at our swing states, North Carolina's there, George's there, so that ticks a lot of boxes. He's also not too far...he's mid-Atlantic too because of Virginia's weird positioning, so maybe that resonates with some folks in Pennsylvania. So yeah, Rich, I think that could be an interesting pick. I think what's working against him is he was held up in similar ways to Ron DeSantis during the primary. He was held up as the next great hope and he got his ass kicked in the last Virginia elections. It took a lot of shine off of it. He was supposed to bring the Washington Wizards and Capitals, the NHL and NBA teams, from Washington, DC to Virginia. He had a whole press conference with the owner, it was a done deal, he failed, the deal fell through, he couldn't get it through the Virginia Legislature. So what started out as a promising career with a lot of momentum lately, has seen a reverse.
Richard Helppie
Unfortunately, there is a podcast that we're going to release, a topic called sports washing, where we do talk a lot about the Wizards and Caps and where they were going to be located, the public financing of stadiums and the like, which I'm against the public financing of stadiums, just for the record. I think it's unfair to your working people. It's really interesting that a guy with your knowledge, this close to an election, can't pinpoint two or three people that would be a great fit for Trump. Basically, that might be his way back into the White House. It would be a great pick, but it doesn't look like he's got one available to him plus, that anti-puppy lobby comes in strong somehow [Laughter].
Justin Higgins
Well, Trump eats dogs so (Rich Helppie: Oh, he does, really?) oh he does, and that's for your listeners. That's like insider theory. Not sure how much we want to get into this but Corey Lewandowski, former top Trump adviser, is having an affair - allegedly, and I need to say that for legal issues - with Kristi Noem, and it's not a secret, but also Trump hates dogs. So the theory is, Lewandowski whispered in her ear to put this in there, it'll make you look tough and endear you to Trump. That's why she put it in there. I don't know if it's true or not. Those are rumors.
Richard Helppie
One of the funniest things I read lately was the Babylon Bee, which makes up satirical stories, that Kristi Noem showed up at the Kentucky Derby asking if the owners wanted to put down into the losers as she racked her shot. (Justin Higgins: I read that story. It was funny.) I don't want this to become the Kristi Noem shot her dog episode and we're at risk of that going on.
Justin Higgins
Rich, Rich, Rich, let's just...the country is divided on babies - and I'm being uncouth and my Democratic friends wouldn't like that - but there is a there is a division [about] abortion. The one thing that this damn divided country can agree on is 80-90% of people like puppies. So she's like, let me go tell the story of how I killed a puppy. It's just...
Richard Helppie
Look, we probably don't have time to do it justice but it seems to me that there is a consensus around abortion if we actually let the facts come out. Nearly all terminated pregnancies happen very early. They happen with medicines versus with surgeries, that there are very few late term abortions. And I thought, okay, Roe versus Wade, it'll go to the states, the states will get reasonable compromises. I underestimated the radical nature of some of our brethren. I never thought that the Republicans would go after the petri dishes of in vitro fertilization or birth control pills because I remember the 60s where they were talking about the birth control pill was going to - I forget what it was supposed to do - supposed to hurt us really bad. I think there's consensus every place but in the political sphere. And with that vote for women in hand, the Biden administration undoes Title IX. If you really want to be cynical and cryptic about it, it'd be like, there are probably a lot more women that want to run track in high school than there are women that want to terminate a pregnancy. By the way, you and I have no standing to be talking about either one of these issues.
Justin Higgins
Rich, to tie this all back in. I wasn't a college athlete, so not really versed in Title IX, but was impacted by it. I think to tie this back to Ohio, you had a ballot initiative that was an extreme abortion ban to be codified in the state constitution. Then Republicans decided to write the other alternative, which was as mostly extreme pro-life as they could because they thought we're in a state that is R plus 10. When voters had the opportunity to go from the very progressive option or the very conservative option, overwhelmingly they chose the progressive option that was written by Republicans in an attempt to sink and manipulate the initiative. So I do agree with you. I think we do have to...
Richard Helppie
Well, look at Kansas, a very conservative state, and they're like, no, we're not going to do this. And, again, not having standing, the dilemma of someone with an unwanted pregnancy, to force them into a highly personal decision juxtaposed with the rights of that unborn child, and someplace in there there is a period in that gestation that it's probably okay when you don't really know the outcome. And both sides are just jacking it up on the extremes and forcing us to pick really radical policy one way or the other. Most Americans don't want that.
Justin Higgins
The doctors told my parents...I had health issues, I was at Boston Children's Hospital, they advised my parents to abort me. My parents thought about it, they were religious Christians, my dad fought in Vietnam. They were like, no, he may have all these birth issues, but we have a responsibility. It's our job and duty to see this child through. I'm very, very thankful they did that. However, I'm also very thankful they had the opportunity to make that decision. Today, they wouldn't have that opportunity in - insert your conservative state. So as somebody that...it's a very personal thing for me. I think that the government should not be trying to over-regulate people's lives, which is a conservative talking point but it's true.
Richard Helppie
I think it's a great point. We have had more than one premature infant in our life, and some severely, but had the Clinton care bill been law it would have been illegal to treat one of them. Now she is a PhD scientist and molecular biologist and a thriving, good mom, great daughter. We have to accept all people for whatever they bring into the world, whether they may have fully functioning bodies, minds; that's a human being. We need to be able to honor that life. Also the incredibly difficult decision your parents must have made. I'm biting my tongue not to make a joke about during your teen years, if they ever said that they maybe would have made a different choice, because you seemed to have turn out okay. [Laughter]
Justin Higgins
Oh, my mom would have definitely. [Laughter] Rich, I think that this program is so great, because clearly you and I both do not have fully functioning minds, yet we're willing to accept each other.
Richard Helppie
Well, here's the difference. I used to...and there's still hope for you, you got that going! [Laughter] Justin, I love having these conversations, I'm glad that we decided about 20 minutes before we fired up for recording to make this program. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you wanted to make sure that the listeners readers and viewers of The Common Bridge have a chance to hear?
Justin Higgins
I think, just to highlight the feeling in DC from Democrats, including myself, [which] is of major concern: the top of the ticket. Biden specifically cannot message well due to his age, and that - this is independent of my thoughts on Trump and what he can or cannot do well - so just realize that while a lot of people are out of touch in DC, a lot of people inside DC are in touch with reality and middle America and folks on the coasts as well. This is a very important election. It's a scary election, probably for both sides. So all that I would implore your listeners to do is read and research articles from both sides to make your own opinion.
Richard Helppie
Great. And of course, I would support that. You're not compelled to vote for either one. You can leave it blank. You can write in somebody, you can vote for a third party. Realistically our options are limited. My perspective is we need to send a message and the message is "do better." I've sat on executive committees selecting chief executives and had these been the two finalists, we would have sent the search agency back and said go find us better people because our people, the United States of America, are better than our government. People aren't at each other's throats. I live in two very diverse communities and have the opportunity to talk to people from all walks of life. There's not really much difference. As a youth I hitchhiked the country a couple of times and met people from all statuses, every description you can make, not really much different than in business in all 50 states and other countries. People just aren't that different and they all kind of want the same thing. One of the things they want is a government that reflects their best values and the type of generous and compassionate people that they are. We've been talking today with the host of Politics and Media 101, our favorite man from inside the beltway, Justin Higgins. We're going to sign off here by doing two things: number one, wishing that his Boston Bruins do prevail, and also that the Washington Commanders do not get ahead of the Detroit Lions. And with that, this is your host, Rich Helppie, signing off on The Common Bridge.
A Fun Talk From Inside the Beltway